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  • Members: 121
  • Category: Spirituality
  • Founded: Nov 19, 2004
  • Language: English

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'The Path of Cinnabar'   Topic List   < Prev Topic  |  Next Topic >
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Re: 'The Path of Cinnabar'

As for your first accusation, the passage in Italian reads:
"Circa il cattolicesimo in quanto, in genere, religione positiva, si
manifestarono anche nel mio caso gli effetti deprecabili del suo essersi ormai
ridotto a forme emotivo-sentimentali e moralistiche in margine alla società
borghese", which is not what you quoted in your original post. You wrote "forme
devozionale", which is not even grammatically correct.

Our translation reads:
"And while I recognised the validity of Catholicism as a positive religion, I
also personally witnessed the disgraceful effects of its dissolution into
emotional, sentimental and moralistic forms in the context of modern bourgeois
society..."

Literally, it would be:
"Concerning Catholicism as a positive religion in general, in my case too there
manifested themselves the disgraceful effects etc.".

Apart from the fact that this not a word-for-word translation, which is not a
correct approach to take to any translation, there is no difference in meaning.

As for your second accusation, the original reads:
"È una banale apologetica in base ai dati più esteriori, catechistici e
sentimentali di questa credenza. Ciò, mentre era stato proprio il Papini del
primo periodo a far conoscere a noi giovani, fra l'altro, figure di mistici,
quali Meister Eckhart, e scritti sapienziali che avrebbero avviato verso ben
diversi orizzonti, nel caso di un vero superamento in senso tradizionale
dell'individualismo intellettualistico e anarchico. "

Our translation reads:
"That book of Papini's is a banal, apologetic book based on the most external,
catechistic and sentimental aspects of Christianity; and yet it was the very
Papini who had previously introduced young people to the figures of mystics like
Meister Eckhart, and to esoteric works which could lead to very different
horizons through the genuine, traditionalist transcendence of intellectualistic,
anarchic individualism."

Literally, it would be:

"It is banal apologetics based on the most exterior, catechistic and sentimental
elements of this belief. This, while it had been the Papini of the first period
himself who had made us young people acquainted, among other things, with
figures of mystics such as Meister Eckhart, and sapiential writings that would
have led us towards very different horizons, in the case of a real overcoming in
a traditional sense of intellectualistic and anarchist intellectualism."

Again, there is no difference in meaning. A translation must be readable, not
simply a word-for-word reproduction.


--- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "Evola" <evola_as_he_is@...> wrote:
>
> Of course, you don't see the difference. J. Evola writes : "With respect to
Catholicism as a positive religion in general, I also personally witnessed the
disgraceful effects of its dissolution into emotional forms..", which,
syntactically rearranged, gives - inelegantly but literally : "I also personally
witnessed the disgraceful effects of the dissolution of Catholicism as a
positive religion in general into emotional... forms...", but it does not bother
you to mistranslate it as : "And while I recognised the validity of Catholicism
as a positive religion, I also personally witnessed the disgraceful effects of
its dissolution into emotional... forms."
>
> We are not bothered with the fact that this translation of 'Il Cammino del
cinabro' is often approximate. The problem with it is essentially its
mistranslations, such as that which is found in the last clause of the following
sentence, which is as plain as the nose on one's face : "That book of Papini's
is a banal, apologetic book based on the most external, catechistic and
sentimental aspects of Christianity ; and yet it was the very Papini who had
previously introduced young people to the figures of mystics like Meister
Eckhart, and to esoteric works which could lead to very different horizons
through the genuine, traditionalist transcendence of intellectualistic, anarchic
individualism." (p. 12) "the genuine, traditionalist transcendence of
intellectualistic, anarchic individualism"?
>
> "… e scritti sapienziali che avrebbero avviato verso ben diversi orizzonti,
nel caso di un vero superamento in senso tradizionale dell'individualismo
intellettualistico e anarchico" means "… and to wisdom writings/works which
could/would have lead to very different horizons, through the overcoming in a
traditional sense of intellectualistic, anarchic individualism."
>
>
>
> --- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <ouro_boros@> wrote:
> >
> > You have retyped the passage from the Arktos edition incorrectly. It
actually reads: "And while I recognised the validity of Catholicism as a
positive religion, I also personally witnessed the disgraceful effects of its
dissolution into emotional, sentimental and moralistic forms in the context of
modern bourgeois society..." So I don't see where the difference is between your
preferred translation and what is printed.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "Evola" <evola_as_he_is@> wrote:
> > >
> > > No matter how unambiguous grammatically, how clear lexically, J. Evola's
prose on Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular tends, who knows
why, to excite the imagination of some translators at the expense of the actual
content. The elegant English translation of 'Il Cammino del cinabro' published
by Arktos in 2009, which we have finally just started to read, does not
constitute an exception : the Italian author makes it clear in the first chapter
that "Circa il cattolicesimo in quanto, in generale, religione positiva, si
manifesterano anche nel mio caso gli effetti deprecabili del suo essersi ormai
ridotto a forme devozionale..." : "With respect to Catholicism as a positive
religion in general, I also personally witnessed the disgraceful effects of its
dissolution into emotional forms...", translated in the Arktos edition, who
knows why, as "And while I recognized the validity of Christianity as a positive
religion, I also personally witnessed the disgraceful effects of its dissolution
into emotional forms..." (p. 9), which is an utter misinterpration, as regards
the first clause.
> > >
> >
>





Mon Jul 2, 2012 6:22 pm

ouro_boros
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No matter how unambiguous grammatically, how clear lexically, J. Evola's prose on Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular tends, who knows why,...
Evola
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email
Jun 28, 2012
3:15 pm

You have retyped the passage from the Arktos edition incorrectly. It actually reads: "And while I recognised the validity of Catholicism as a positive...
Michael
ouro_boros Offline Send Email
Jul 1, 2012
1:10 am

Of course, you don't see the difference. J. Evola writes : "With respect to Catholicism as a positive religion in general, I also personally witnessed the...
Evola
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email
Jul 1, 2012
11:00 am

As for your first accusation, the passage in Italian reads: "Circa il cattolicesimo in quanto, in genere, religione positiva, si manifestarono anche nel mio...
Michael
ouro_boros Offline Send Email
Jul 2, 2012
7:40 pm

There does not seem to be any limit to your bad faith. In a translation that will be undertaken of the first chapter of 'Il Cammino del cinabro" in the manly...
Evola
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email
Jul 2, 2012
10:21 pm

You have your interpretations. Our translator has his. Nothing you have posted has convinced me that our translation is in need of rectification, whatever...
Michael
ouro_boros Offline Send Email
Jul 3, 2012
12:41 pm

It is evident that EAHI's translations are superior; more informed and authentic. For example, why do you say there is no difference in meaning between "And...
sithwalker Offline Send Email Jul 3, 2012
8:18 pm

It is not at all obvious to me that EAHI's translations are "superior." Nor have I become "irrational." He's only discussed a few phrases from the first...
Michael Lord
ouro_boros Offline Send Email
Jul 4, 2012
10:56 am

The difference is indeed significant, especially as J. Evola's position on Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular is a sensitive subject....
Evola
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email
Jul 4, 2012
4:49 pm

I will ask our translator about this passage. He also had second thoughts about some of your earlier criticisms. He wrote: "1) "I was able to..." instead of "I...
Michael Lord
ouro_boros Offline Send Email
Jul 4, 2012
5:42 pm

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