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How did ancient white Christians experience 'negritude'?   Topic List   < Prev Topic  |  Next Topic >
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How did ancient white Christians experience 'negritude'?


You have already explained your 'socially pragmatic' position, that's
right, and we have already showed how fanciful it is in our replies to
your post on so-called Aryan-Christianity, an absurd concept which,
unsurprisingly, has become extremely fashionable across the Atlantic
in the second part of the twentieth century. A few weeks ago, you went
at it again with that bedtime stories for the children according to
which, along protestant lines, it is told that modern Christianity has
nothing to do with ancient Christianity : "Let us learn, you said, to
differentiate between modern Christianity and ancient Christianity".
You are then showed by various irrefutable arguments that early
Christianity was Marxism in embryo with respect to the question at
hand here, but that doesn't prevent you from returning to the attack,
from a different angle though : you shift the emphasis on a so-called
'virile Christianity', whose non existence has been showed in our
posts on so-called 'Aryan Christianity'. What's next? Sherwin-White's
(sic) thoughts on 'Racial Prejudice in Ancient Rome'? The title sounds
promising.

Meanwhile, you have discovered that "the Bible clearly records the
white Mediterranean phenotype as normative" and you have inferred from
Gen. 12:11, 24:16, 26:7; I Samuel 16:11-12, 17:42; , 6:10;
Lamentations 4:7, "etc", that "The ancient Israelites were racially
and phenotypically similar to the ancient Romans as Mediterranean
Whites". You cannot be serious, can you? One is free to fantasise
about the "godly form of Sarah", but one shouldn't mistake the wild
imaginings of a medieval Jew fantasising, millennia after, about
"Sarah" with realities : far from having become "catastrophically
mixed with slave" over time, Jews are originally a racial mix :
"Ethnically, and originally, very different bloods have flowed into
the Jewish people ; the Old Testament itself speaks of many tribes and
races contained in this people" ('Three Aspects of the Jewish
Problem'). "Modern race research has come to admit, in it, the
presence of elements even of Aryan or non-Semitic origins, as seems to
be the case in particular for the Pharisees" (ibid.) : hence Jews with
blond hair and blue eyes, in short with Aryan physical features. It
ensues from this that what the Jewish people has tried fiercely to
maintain for millennia is not a 'purity of blood', which it never
possessed, but precisely the contrary : a mixed blood, at a certain
stage, at the original stage of this mixing. Only a people originating
in a racial mixing can be led to conceive the monstrous project of
mixing all races and to implement it as soon as it becomes omnipotent
on the material plane.

Negro blood was one of those "very different bloods" which originally
"flowed into the Jewish people". The excerpts of the works of Jewish
and Arab authors you quoted on Negro remind of the zoological racism
of colonials, whose veins originate in Jewish racism. In any case, you
must be the only one to see in them an acknowledgment of the hierarchy
of races.

Within the context of academic studies, it may be interesting to
research "the statements of the early Christian ChurchFathers and
theologians on racial matters", which, for some of them, may be
"surprisingly 'unpolitically correct', and yet committed them only as
individuals, and not as representatives of the Church. This is the
official position of the Church on what is now called the racial
question : "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put
on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor
free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ
Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring", and
it is this subversive demagogic 'dogma' which has constituted the
principle according to which the Church has developed its action in
this field for two millennia. Not Saint Endues' "revealing
instruction". Paul's statement was not poetry, it was a declaration of
war against Roman civilisation and all the values on which it was based.

This doesn't mean that ethnicity was not important in early
Christianity. In 'Why This New Race?', through analyses of Clement of
Alexandria's 'Protreptikos', Origen's 'ContraCelsum', and the
'Shepherd of Hermas', D.K. Buell shows how some early Christians
philosophers and theologians "used ethnic reasoning to define
Christians as a distinct people within classical and ancient Near East
society and in intra-Christian debates about what constituted
Christianness" ; used ideas about race and ethnicity to make
universalising claims about Christianness "by defining Christianity as
a race, open to all peoples" : do you only realise how subversive this
is? How deranged one has to be to come to this? In other words,
instead of denying race purely and simply, some early Christians
perverted its concept, by emptying words like 'genos' and 'ethnos'
from their content, or, if you want, by using them metaphorically,
before striving to eradicate race as a living reality. This excerpt
from the review is edifying, from our point of view : "In spite of
Buell's efforts to inscribe this sort of cosmological universalism
within the parameters of ethnic reasoning, it remains difficult (at
least to this reviewer) to escape the sense that it is precisely in
these sorts of expressions that Christians seem to be looking for an
identity that transcends the particularity of racial identities; by
heralding the restoration of a time before nations or races,
Christians like Clement and Origen (at least in those few passages
noted by Buell) simultaneously envision an identity that is
post-national/racial. The Gnostic Tripartite Tractate is succinct on
this historical schema: "the end will receive a unitary existence just
as the beginning is unitary" (cited at 83). Such a sentiment shuns the
plurality entailed by ethnic particularity, while the pneumatic genos
of the Tractate, if denoting "race" rather than "type" (as Buell
translates it at first, 83), contains a collectivity of souls who can
potentially never come into contact with each other and share a
communal way of life, hence becoming so vacuous as to scarcely carry
the cluster of ideas that attend to ancient racial frameworks. As in
the time before history, so at the end of history, distinctive racial
identities are dissolved; ethnicity is an ephemeral and localized
aberration of the history of the physical world. Harnack's whisper,
not fully exorcised, can still be heard in spite of Buell's assertions
that this sort of universalism must be read ethnically." The whole
thing becomes really sinister and border upon pathology in some
Gnostic texts, especially the Gospel of Philip, in which the ability
of changing one's genos through ritual is highlighted. Some Gnostics
were really ahead of their times, so ahead that, even in 2006, even
the most illusionned shûdra of the most hysterically anti-racist
lobbies haven't gone so far as to mention this "ability", at least
publicly and officially.

With respect to Ginzberg's 'Legends of the Bible', Jews, as is well
known, curse a lot, it is interesting and not surprising that Jews
curse people mainly on sexual grounds.

Evola once pointed out in his writings about so-called 'neo-paganism'
that most of the forms of 'paganism' practised by modern European
'pagans' have actually never existed in antiquity, and, to a certain
extent, he was right, to the extent that the Roman religio is no
longer practised, except, maybe, in a few families which still worship
the family gods worshiped by their ancestors, and that Nordic
heathenism, except in small circles, is the shadow of what it used to
be, whereas what has been re-emerging is matriarchal paganism. In the
same way, Christians are 're-discovering' a Christianity which is a
pure figment of their fertile imagination and only exists in their mind.




--- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "brightimperator"
<brightimperator@...> wrote:
>
>
> I forgot to thank everyone (kshonan, caleb, darkie, zenon,
> evola_as_he_is) for providing references and help on my previous
> posts...
>
> I will compose a good documentary post on ancient Roman racism when I
> have the time (there is a book on this specific subject entitled, Racial
> Prejudice in Imperial Rome, by A. N. Sherwin-White)...
>
> As to Christianity, I have already explained my 'socially pragmatic'
> position. The problem is with MODERN Protestant, Marxified, Zionistic
> Christianity, not the initiatic, virile Christianity of Dionysius the
> Areopagite, Meister Eckhart and the Military Religious Orders.
>
> If we are considering Christianity from a racial perspective, the Bible
> clearly records the white Mediterranean phenotype as normative and
> Jesus' ancestor King David is described as "white and ruddy" (Song of
> Songs 5:10). The ancient Israelites were racially and phenotypically
> similar to the ancient Romans as Mediterranean Whites. Only the
> uneducated or agenda-driven could fail to see this fact. See Gen. 12:11,
> 24:16, 26:7; I Samuel 16:11-12, 17:42; Song of Songs 5:10, 6:10;
> Lamentations 4:7, etc... Abarbanel at the
> end of the 15th century described the Hebrew matriarch Sarah as 'a
> beautiful woman...since her beauty is her whiteness (loven)'...
> Unfortunately, Jews over time became catastrophically mixed with slave
> detritus, and not many have the godly form of Sarah...
>
> Right now, I am researching the statements of the early Christian Church
> Fathers and theologians on racial matters, which are surprisingly
> 'unpolitically correct', and I will post the final results of my
> research when I am finished... For instance, there is the revealing
> instruction of Saint Ennodius (474-521): "Let not black girls stain
> your body, and don't lie with them on account of their Hellish
> face." (Sic tua non maculent nigrantes membra puellae,
> Nec iaceas propter Tartaream faciem), Epistulae 7.21.
>
> Apropos of the curse of Ham and ancient Judeo-Christian/Islamic views on
> racial hierarchy--
>
> "During their sojourn in the ark, the two sexes, of men and animals
> alike, had lived apart from each other.... This law of conduct had been
> violated by none in the ark except by Ham, by the dog and by the raven.
> They all received a punishment. Ham's was that his descendents were men
> of dark-hued skin" (Ginzberg, Legends of the Bible, 79).
>
> In Genesis Rabbah, Rabbi Hiyya claims that "Ham and a dog had sexual
> relations in the ark. Therefore Ham came forth dusky, and the dog, for
> his part, has sexual relations in public...." (Jacob Neusner, ed.,
> Genesis Rabbah: The Judaic Commentary to the Book of Genesis, A New
> American Translation, vol. 2, 33).
>
> The rabbis additionally associated Ham's sexual assault upon Noah with
> the enslaved condition and degraded color of his descendents:
>
> A. Said R. Berekhiah, "Noah in the ark was most distressed that he had
> no young son to take care of him. He said, 'When I shall get out of this
> ark, I shall produce a young son to take care of me.'
>
>
> B. "When Ham had done the disgraceful deed, he said, 'You are the one
> who stopped me from producing a young son to take care of me, therefore
> that man himself [you] will be a servant to his brothers.'"
>
> C. R. Huna in the name of R. Joseph: " 'You are the one who prevented me
> from producing a fourth son, therefore I curse your fourth son
> [corresponding to the fourth son I never had].' "
>
>
> D. R. Huna in the name of R. Joseph: " 'You are the one who stopped me
> from doing something that is done in darkness, therefore your seed will
> be ugly and dusky.'" (Neusner, Genesis Rabbah, 33)
>
> The connection between Ham's sin and the phenotype of his descendents is
> highlighted in a well-known compendium of rabbinic commentary on Genesis
> 9:
>
> "When Noah awoke from his wine and became sober, he pronounced a curse
> upon the last-born son of the son that had prevented him from begetting
> a younger son than the three he had. The descendents of Ham through
> Canaan therefore have red eyes, because Ham looked upon the nakedness of
> his father; they have misshapen lips, because Ham spoke with his lips to
> his brothers about the unseemly condition of his father; they have
> twisted curly hair, because Ham turned and twisted his head round to see
> the nakedness of his father; and they go about naked, because Ham did
> not cover the nakedness of his father." (Ginzberg, Legends of the Bible,
> 80)
>
> The Midrashic author of Bereshit Rabbah 86:3, in the context of
> explicating the biblical story of the Ishmaelite's sale of Joseph into
> slavery to Potiphar, identifies one who is by nature a master as
> 'German':
>
> "Everywhere a white (Germani, literally German) sells a black man
> (cushi), while here a black man is selling a white man! He is no slave!"
>
> Joseph is thus designated as 'Germani', i.e. European, a fair-skinned
> natural master.
>
> Before modern political correctness existed, Jews, Christians and
> Muslims acknowledged the hierarchy of races. Jewish medieval philosophy
> certainly did. For example, let us study Judah Halevi's The Kuzari
> (1:1):
>
> "Therefore, every individual on earth has its complete causes;
> consequently an individual with perfect causes becomes perfect and
> another with imperfect causes remains imperfect, e.g. the black (al
> habashi) is fit to receive nothing more than human shape and speech
> (i.e. intellectual potential) in its least developed form; the
> philosopher, however, who is equipped with the highest capacity, derives
> therefrom moral, intellectual and active advantages, so that he wants
> nothing to make him perfect."
>
> Also see the Parable of the King's Palace (3:51) in Moses
> Maimonide's Guide to the Perplexed:
>
> "Those who are outside the city are all human individuals who have no
> doctrinal beliefs, neither one based on speculation nor one that accepts
> the authority of tradition: such individuals as the furthermost Turks
> found in the remote north, the Blacks (al sudan) found in the remote
> south, and those who resemble them from among them that are with us in
> these climes. The status of those is like that of irrational animals. To
> my mind they do not have the rank of men, but have among the beings a
> rank lower than the rank of man but higher than the rank of apes."
>
> Then there is the forthright starkness of the famous Islamic scholar Ibn
> Khaldun (1332-1406):
>
> "Therefore, the Black nations are, as a rule, submissive to slavery,
> because (Blacks) have little (that is essentially) human and have
> attributes that are quite similar to dumb animals, as we have stated"
> (The Muqaddimah).
>
> And last, the great Jewish statesman, philosopher and statesman,
> Abrabanel (1437-1508). In his Perush le-Sefer Bereshit (Commentary on
> the Book of Genesis), Abrabanel states the following:
>
> "And see, Ham displays the animal life, so that seeing his father's
> nakedness he did not spare his honor. As an ignoramus he knew not the
> fine qualities of honoring father and mother and the matter of nakedness
> ... And of Ham he said Canaan shall serve them, meaning that Ham's
> favorite son Canaan would serve Shem and Japheth. Just as the
> philosopher [= Plato] in his book on the leadership of the state [= The
> Republic] assigns this to sages, the lust for power and mastery to
> another class and to tillers of the soil the lust for servitude and
> domination. Accordingly the word Canaan comes from the Hebrew word
> surrender (hachna'ah), as I have explained that animal life serves the
> good life and surrenders to intellectual life. Ham is so called both
> because his heart grew hot [ham = hot in Hebrew] within him to pursue
> his lusts or because he is as dark (shahor) and ugly (mecho'ar) as a
> black (cushi) in complexion and feature and qualities, signifying the
> opposite of Japheth who is fine of form and conduct. ... And you shall
> see how the qualities of the three ancestors are found in the nations
> that sprang from them: thus from Ham come Cush and Egypt and Phot and
> Canaan all of whom to this day are ugly in appearance, dark (shehorot)
> in form as a raven, awash in lust and drawn to animal pleasures, lacking
> intelligence and knowledge and statesmanship and the qualities of virtue
> and heroism. ... It follows that the three sons of Noah each displayed
> the interest and the character of one of the three ways of life, and
> their issue followed in their footsteps and had their qualities."
>





Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:46 pm

evola_as_he_is
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One of the earliest of the apocryphal acts of the apostles, The Acts of Peter, gives us a hint of the ancient White Christian experience of "negritude" and a...
brightimperator Offline Send Email Nov 18, 2006
7:03 pm

It's a piece of art, and, what's more, a piece of 'degenerated art' : modern 'art' is what 'shocks', 'silences' and 'offends', in order to make money. In this...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Nov 18, 2006
8:31 pm

I forgot to thank everyone (kshonan, caleb, darkie, zenon, evola_as_he_is) for providing references and help on my previous posts... I will compose a good...
brightimperator Offline Send Email Nov 30, 2006
2:43 pm

You have already explained your 'socially pragmatic' position, that's right, and we have already showed how fanciful it is in our replies to your post on...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Nov 30, 2006
4:06 pm

How did ancient white Christians experience 'negritude'? The above question is beyond me, it is for ever closed, forget it. Perhaps what you have at heart is...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Nov 30, 2006
7:55 pm

We thought we had warned the users of this list shortly ago against the excessive use of drugs....
zenon_noir Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2006
11:34 am

Regarding drugs, I do not take them in any form what so ever, well perhaps an aspirin or two. I don't drink alcohol, yet I must admit I do partake on special ...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2006
2:39 pm

It's good that you forcefully rebuke as long as its good-intentioned. I can explain myself. My thesis: premodern Catholic-Orthodox Christianity is not hostile...
brightimperator Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2006
10:26 pm

You can't explain yourself, and one cannot hold a grudge on you for not being able to do so : trying to explain that "premodern Catholic-Orthodox Christianity...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 2, 2006
9:38 am

We do not mind that you should want to explain yourself. On the contrary, for your arguments work only against you. The so-called 'racism' of the Christian...
zenon_noir Offline Send Email Dec 3, 2006
1:15 pm

This reminds me of the cultish beliefs of K.M.Wiligut and his particular disdain for Wotan, for his theosophical derived Kristur....
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 3, 2006
2:41 pm

Also when speaks of `Solar' no doubt we aren't referring to what is life denying. Here a nefarious `Solar' cult is brought to mind on a one way trip to Sirius,...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 4, 2006
11:45 am

Ancient Egyptians called Sirius S-p-t (Sept, they did not write the vowels) relating it to a warlike goddess, Satit the she-archer. Greeks translated it into...
vandermok
charltonroad36 Offline Send Email
Dec 6, 2006
4:21 pm

This does not mean that before the return of the solar, Olympic consciousness the Cosmos was without law and order, but for a while these words had another...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 6, 2006
8:48 pm

"The ancient Israelites were racially and phenotypically similar to the ancient Romans as Mediterranean Whites. Only the uneducated or agenda-driven could fail...
Rowan Berkeley
rowan_berkeley Offline Send Email
Nov 30, 2006
3:54 pm

Actually, it would have made no difference if the ancient Israelites had been as white as snow : the moment they started developing an ideology that runs along...
Rowan Berkeley
rowan_berkeley Offline Send Email
Nov 30, 2006
3:56 pm

... Israelites had been as ... that runs along ... world-wide, even ... he needs our ... us ... " ... If we choose to rely on the Nietzschian analysis of the...
brightimperator Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2006
2:50 pm

For a scholar, MacDonald has guts : he "testified on behalf of the historian David Irving in the unsuccessful lawsuit he brought against Deborah Lipstadt over...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2006
5:45 pm

Such a discussion must remain fruitless unless it is reframed. To keep the debate focused solely on the question of Catholic vs Heathen is to remain of the...
Toni Ciopa
hyperborean Offline Send Email
Dec 2, 2006
9:30 am

First, this not a discussion. There cannot be any discussion with someone who doesn't take in consideration the arguments of his interlocutor and develops his...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 2, 2006
9:32 pm

The divergence between solar and lunar (or Asiatic) civilisations is not limited to Christianity versus Heathenism, and must be considered also as a wide...
vandermok
charltonroad36 Offline Send Email
Dec 4, 2006
11:39 am

In my opinion the essence of Roman 'common sense' can be summed up in the banal but profound maxim, "Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi."...
Rowan Berkeley
rowan_berkeley Offline Send Email
Dec 2, 2006
1:11 pm

Paul Valéry, who translated Virgile and was a fine connoisseur of Roman civilisation as well as a censor of the modern West, became fond of that 'common...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 2, 2006
2:11 pm

For being my `own' slave I flay myself for parroting… In relation to the exposé of Nietzsche's absurdity via Evola's examination of the limitations entailed...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 2, 2006
9:37 pm

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-references-protocols-full-text-folder.html PROTOCOL No. 2 DESTRUCTIVE EDUCATION 3. Do not suppose for a moment that these...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 2, 2006
9:47 pm

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