Three days ago I sent this but did not appear on the forum. I send it again, if lost.
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I do not know how much Wikipedia is reliable, but anyway this matter makes my head spin. As far as I have understood, Aurelianus and not Caesar established that feast of 25 December, only in 274 AD (foundation of the temple of the Sol Invictus). Before, as far as I know, Saturnalia never considered the day 25 as a true solsticial feast.
On the web, man insists also that the astronomical winter solstice was, in the Julian calendar, the 13 December; a popular relic of which would be today the feast of Saint Lucy (in Italy there is lullabay about: Santa Lucia č la notte piů lunga che ci sia). You read Italian and can understand.
According to the fine freeware program 'Riyal' of Juan Revilla http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/ and also according to Asterix, Solar Fire, etc. the ingress of the sun into Capricorn fell between 2 and 3 December in Julian calendar. The day 25 December of 274 A. D. the sun was about 4° Capricorn in Gregorian calendar, that means the real solstice was regularly 4 days before. So it seems to me that the sentence of Julianus would look correct.
According to the fine freeware program 'Riyal' of Juan Revilla http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/ and also according to Asterix, Solar Fire, etc. the ingress of the sun into Capricorn fell between 2 and 3 December in Julian calendar. The day 25 December of 274 A. D. the sun was about 4° Capricorn in Gregorian calendar, that means the real solstice was regularly 4 days before. So it seems to me that the sentence of Julianus would look correct.
Since the problem is not related to Evola, if I'm capable to understand more, I will let you know privately.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Ciapo
Obviously, by Julian’s time the date for the Winter Solstice no longer fell on 25 December due to the inaccuracy in the Julian calendar. Do you have a reliable source that denies the Julian calendar originally assigned 25 December to the Winter Solstice?
This article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice explains the 3 day discrepancy noted by Julian.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Ciapo
Obviously, by Julian’s time the date for the Winter Solstice no longer fell on 25 December due to the inaccuracy in the Julian calendar. Do you have a reliable source that denies the Julian calendar originally assigned 25 December to the Winter Solstice?
This article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice explains the 3 day discrepancy noted by Julian.
From: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com [mailto:evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vandermok
It seems that the difference between the solstice and the Natalis Solis Invicti has not to do with the calendar reformations, but as the emperor Julianus said:
"They fixed that feast not just in the exact day of the solar conversion, but in the one in which the return of the sun, from south to north, does appear before the eyes of everybody" ( from http://www.centrostudilaruna.it/saturnalia.html )< o>
The same thing happens with the crescent of the new moon that becoms visible only 3 day about after the astronomical phenomenon.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Ciapo
Well, Julius Caesar must have had the same lapse, when he established December 25 as the date of the winter solstice in 46 BCE.
Unfortunately, the date would have gradually drifted due to the inaccuracy in the Julian Calendar. When Pope Gregory reformed the calendar, he did not start at 46 BCE, but a few hundred years later. Thus the 4 day difference now between Christmas and the winter solstice .
"They fixed that feast not just in the exact day of the solar conversion, but in the one in which the return of the sun, from south to north, does appear before the eyes of everybody" ( from http://www.centrostudilaruna.it/saturnalia.html )< o>
The same thing happens with the crescent of the new moon that becoms visible only 3 day about after the astronomical phenomenon.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Ciapo
Well, Julius Caesar must have had the same lapse, when he established December 25 as the date of the winter solstice in 46 BCE.
Unfortunately, the date would have gradually drifted due to the inaccuracy in the Julian Calendar. When Pope Gregory reformed the calendar, he did not start at 46 BCE, but a few hundred years later. Thus the 4 day difference now between Christmas and the winter solstice .