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How did ancient white Christians experience 'negritude'?   Topic List   < Prev Topic  |  Next Topic >
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Roman Attitude Towards Race And Christian Attitude Towards Race

First, this not a discussion. There cannot be any discussion with
someone who doesn't take in consideration the arguments of his
interlocutor and develops his views as if these arguments hadn't been
brought up and actually didn't exist. Second, this is not about
Catholicism against Heathenism, but Christianity against genotheism,
or rather, to be more precise, Christianity as a Semitic religious
form against Aryan genotheism : this is the frame, which, if you read
again 'Negritude', you find is even more restricted : to the question
of the attitude of Roman genotheism towards race and the attitude of
Christianity towards race. As far as your considerations are
concerned, they are much vaster and deal with other aspects of the
dualism between Christianity and heathenism, which, for some of them,
have already been tackled here

Third, there is a Christian spirit just as there is an Aryan
genotheist spirit, so that, since we have been considering both and,
beyond this, their respective intimate core, it is precisely from the
spiritual point of view that we have been looking at things. In its
pure state, beyond its alterations and its denaturations throughout
history, what is the intrinsic attitude of a genotheist cult such as
Roman religion towards race ; what is that of Christianity towards it?
This is, we repeat, the problem at stake here. Their respective
attitude towards it derives naturally from their respective spirit,
the former, to cut a long story short, solar, the latter lunar. In the
former, religion is closely linked with and cannot even be conceived
of outside the racial frame : it is so true that, when Rome decayed to
the point of incorporating in it alien elements or decayed because
alien elements infiltrated it and undermined its roots, alien could
still not convert to it, whereas, right from the start, Christianity,
by its inner nature, was a religion open to anyone, irrespective of
race and sex, and, therefore, proselyte and based on conversion. This
is precisely why the former should be called genotheism, that is, a
religion based on a racial factor, and the latter, for instance,
pathotheism, when the terms 'monotheism' and 'polytheism', coined, by
the way, by Christian apologetics, in whose interest it was to hide
its 'polytheist' origins, only cloud the issue.

The presence of lunar elements in the Christian teaching, elements
which are clearly closely linked with matriarchal cults and which can
be brought back to the human substance of the early Christians, is too
obvious for us to emphasise. As for the question of the 'solar
elements' which can be found in it, and which, as you recall, were
noted by Evola, it is often misunderstood, and, as far as Evola is
concerned, this misunderstanding is partly due to the way he expressed
himself on this matter. He didn't make himself clear enough, as clear
as he made himself in his writings about the 'phenomenology of
subversion', in which he made this absolutely fundamental point, worth
of a truly differentiated spirit : the presence of an element in a
structure, in a whole, does not mean anything in itself ; what is
meaningful, what must be considered, on the other hand, is its
function in this whole. This is not an observation of genius, this is
the natural power of discrimination of a truly organic thought, which
is at work again in his comments on the saying 'Diabolus deus inversus'.

To make ourselves perfectly clear, let's apply this principle of
analysis to a most concrete plane : the presence of moss in the engine
of an old car which is not maintained by its owner does not make this
motor a garden, does it? In a garden, moss is expected to be found and
contributes to the organic development of this environment. Found in
an engine, its 'meaning' and its 'function' are far from being as
positive.

The presence of 'solar elements' in Christianity thus does not mean
anything in itself and the study of their function in the whole of the
Christian teaching could actually reveal particularly sinister aspects
of this teaching. Contrary to what Guénon often seemed to assume,
inversion of symbols have not started in the modern times.

When Evola says that "There is the possibility of its contributing to
a future spiritual reconstruction to the susceptibility, from the
solar elements present in it, to integrate itself into the vaster
order of the primordial, solar traditional. And in this order, without
doubt, there can be ensured an essential convergence of the positive
element of Christianity with that of the great, virile, Olympian
elements possessed both by the authentic Romanity and the greatest
forms of the common Indo-European and Aryan civilisations", he is not
drawing any practical consequences at all - in 'Sintesi di dottrina
della razza', he clearly stated that the question of the
'cohabitation' of 'paganism' and of Christianity appeared insoluble to
him on the practical plane in the 1940's ; he is only referring to a
"possibility" on the plane of principles. Now, the practical
consequences to be drawn from these optimistic views, provided that
and only provided that an Aryan order is restored, are the following
ones, and, as we have already mentioned it, we don't understand how
Evola didn't draw them himself, as they are obvious : Christianity,
whether in its orthodox, in its protestant or in its catholic flavour,
could remain, cleansed of all its Semitic elements (but, then, what
would be left of it?), as the religion of the people, of those whose
inner nature, limited as it is by lunar and more or less aphrodisian
tendencies, prevents them from being able to recognise directly the
solar elements in the religion of their ancestors and are only able to
feel more or less vaguely "the remnants of solarity in what is close
in time and in place". As for the élite, it goes without saying that
it lives according to the 'mos maiorum' ; otherwise, it is not an
élite, but, at best, a semblance of élite. Roman civilisation decayed
and fell because its élite lost communication with its gods, that is,
with the higher forces in which, on a non material plane, their stock
originated and which acted as a formative force : an Aryan
civilisation can only be reborn if communication with these forces is
restored, which demands the actualisation of the potentialities of a
transcendental heredity in those in which this heredity is still
present. To consider an Aryan restoration in 2006 seems, to say the
least, premature, as what's left of it is fighting not to disappear.
At the end of the nineteenth century, it may have appeared that

Evola didn't point exactly point out that "there are no pure races".
What he really pointed out is that "pure races in an absolute sense no
longer exist nowadays" (p. 33).

On Codreanu, please see message 709.



--- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "Toni Ciopa" <hyperborean@...>
wrote:
>
> Such a discussion must remain fruitless unless it is reframed. To
keep the
> debate focused solely on the question of Catholic vs Heathen is to
remain of
> the corporeal level, while the truth can only be found on the level of
> Spirit.
>
>
>
> The race of the spirit is the foundation and everything else is
manifested
> from it. In Sintesi, Evola mentions the three great Aryan
civilisations: (1)
> the Oriental (presumably the civilisation that gave rise to the
Vedanta and
> Buddhism), (2) ancient Rome, and (3) the German-Roman Middle Ages.
Since the
> Middle Ages are quintessentially Catholic, it is necessary to understand
> what is of value in that civilisation, and what not, since, in general,
> Evola is intransigently opposed to Christianity.
>
>
>
> However, we can also do the same to ancient, heathen Rome, since the
roots
> of its corruption were planted long before Christianity took there.
After
> all, a healthy organism is resistant to invasion by outside
organisms, and
> Rome was not healthy. There was constant immigration which brought
in lunar
> and telluric elements, even before the Christian era. There was
> indiscriminate granting of citizenship, so the meaning of being a Roman
> became distorted. There was a universalistic frame of mind that
allowed a
> Trajan to become emperor, or a Saul of Tarsus to have full rights of
> citizenship --- something that, by the way, no Catholic country ever
> permitted.
>
>
>
> Before Christianity, Stoicism, also with a universalistic ethics
based on
> the Logos, had taken hold among the Roman aristocracy. This often
led to the
> freeing of slaves, turning them into citizens, in the name of
universalism
> and the virtue of "magnanimousness". Paganism was hardly what the
> re-enactors attempt to make of it. First of all, educated Greeks and
Romans
> did not really believe in the myths. They did, however, see its value in
> social control and, therefore, the virtue of piety - that is,
worship of the
> gods of one's fathers - was important. Even Socrates, despite his
> rationalism, saw piety as a virtue and used it to defend himself
against the
> charges of corrupting the youths of Athens. It is still a virtue
today, but
> too little followed.
>
>
>
> Even its so-called polytheism is overrated. Platonism,
Aristotelianism, and
> Stoicism were monotheistic and were followed by upper classes. The more
> intellectual or mystical were attracted to Neoplatonism, again
ultimately
> monotheistic.
>
>
>
> As Evola has often pointed out, there are no pure races - this is not
> intended to be a biological observation, but a spiritual one, since
there is
> an admixture of spiritual elements, which were manifested as the
> contradictions that existed both in ancient Rome, as well as in the
Middle
> Ages, though in different ways.
>
>
>
> So, now that we have outlined the faults of ancient Rome, and
certainly in a
> one-sided way just to make a point, we must now turn to the third Aryan
> civilisation and look at its strengths.
>
>
>
> In an essay included in the February, 1939 issue of "La Vita Italiana",
> Evola explicitly addresses the "solarity" of Christianity:
>
>
>
> "Solar elements are without doubt present in Christianity,
particularly in
> Roman Catholicism . in spite its subversive and universalistic aspects.
> These [solar] elements . are fragments of the great primordial solar
> tradition"
>
>
>
> Evola goes on to draw out the practical consequences. "There is the
> possibility of its contributing to a future spiritual reconstruction
to the
> susceptibility, from the solar elements present in it, to integrate
itself
> into the vaster order of the primordial, solar traditional. And in this
> order, without doubt, there can be ensured an essential convergence
of the
> positive element of Christianity with that of the great, virile,
Olympian
> elements possessed both by the authentic Romanity and the greatest
forms of
> the common Indo-European and Aryan civilisations."
>
>
>
> That is why Evola could recognize the solar spiritual elements in a
man like
> Codreanu and not be misled by the outward form his piety took. It is an
> exercise for the reader to determine exactly what these solar
elements are
> in Roman Catholicism and why the german-roman middle ages represent
a high
> point of Aryan civilisation. Simply to boast of one's
anti-Christianity and
> to puff up heathen credentials is not same thing as demonstrating a
solar
> spirit. One will not be able to recognise the solar elements in
heathenism,
> which is distant, if one cannot recognise the remnants of solarity
in what
> is close in time and in place.
>
>
>
> The way forward is to bring together all the solar elements into a new
> synthesis, whatever their source, which task can only be accomplished
> through knowledge and understanding.
>





Sat Dec 2, 2006 4:47 pm

evola_as_he_is
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One of the earliest of the apocryphal acts of the apostles, The Acts of Peter, gives us a hint of the ancient White Christian experience of "negritude" and a...
brightimperator Offline Send Email Nov 18, 2006
7:03 pm

It's a piece of art, and, what's more, a piece of 'degenerated art' : modern 'art' is what 'shocks', 'silences' and 'offends', in order to make money. In this...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Nov 18, 2006
8:31 pm

I forgot to thank everyone (kshonan, caleb, darkie, zenon, evola_as_he_is) for providing references and help on my previous posts... I will compose a good...
brightimperator Offline Send Email Nov 30, 2006
2:43 pm

You have already explained your 'socially pragmatic' position, that's right, and we have already showed how fanciful it is in our replies to your post on...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Nov 30, 2006
4:06 pm

How did ancient white Christians experience 'negritude'? The above question is beyond me, it is for ever closed, forget it. Perhaps what you have at heart is...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Nov 30, 2006
7:55 pm

We thought we had warned the users of this list shortly ago against the excessive use of drugs....
zenon_noir Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2006
11:34 am

Regarding drugs, I do not take them in any form what so ever, well perhaps an aspirin or two. I don't drink alcohol, yet I must admit I do partake on special ...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2006
2:39 pm

It's good that you forcefully rebuke as long as its good-intentioned. I can explain myself. My thesis: premodern Catholic-Orthodox Christianity is not hostile...
brightimperator Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2006
10:26 pm

You can't explain yourself, and one cannot hold a grudge on you for not being able to do so : trying to explain that "premodern Catholic-Orthodox Christianity...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 2, 2006
9:38 am

We do not mind that you should want to explain yourself. On the contrary, for your arguments work only against you. The so-called 'racism' of the Christian...
zenon_noir Offline Send Email Dec 3, 2006
1:15 pm

This reminds me of the cultish beliefs of K.M.Wiligut and his particular disdain for Wotan, for his theosophical derived Kristur....
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 3, 2006
2:41 pm

Also when speaks of `Solar' no doubt we aren't referring to what is life denying. Here a nefarious `Solar' cult is brought to mind on a one way trip to Sirius,...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 4, 2006
11:45 am

Ancient Egyptians called Sirius S-p-t (Sept, they did not write the vowels) relating it to a warlike goddess, Satit the she-archer. Greeks translated it into...
vandermok
charltonroad36 Offline Send Email
Dec 6, 2006
4:21 pm

This does not mean that before the return of the solar, Olympic consciousness the Cosmos was without law and order, but for a while these words had another...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 6, 2006
8:48 pm

"The ancient Israelites were racially and phenotypically similar to the ancient Romans as Mediterranean Whites. Only the uneducated or agenda-driven could fail...
Rowan Berkeley
rowan_berkeley Offline Send Email
Nov 30, 2006
3:54 pm

Actually, it would have made no difference if the ancient Israelites had been as white as snow : the moment they started developing an ideology that runs along...
Rowan Berkeley
rowan_berkeley Offline Send Email
Nov 30, 2006
3:56 pm

... Israelites had been as ... that runs along ... world-wide, even ... he needs our ... us ... " ... If we choose to rely on the Nietzschian analysis of the...
brightimperator Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2006
2:50 pm

For a scholar, MacDonald has guts : he "testified on behalf of the historian David Irving in the unsuccessful lawsuit he brought against Deborah Lipstadt over...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 1, 2006
5:45 pm

Such a discussion must remain fruitless unless it is reframed. To keep the debate focused solely on the question of Catholic vs Heathen is to remain of the...
Toni Ciopa
hyperborean Offline Send Email
Dec 2, 2006
9:30 am

First, this not a discussion. There cannot be any discussion with someone who doesn't take in consideration the arguments of his interlocutor and develops his...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 2, 2006
9:32 pm

The divergence between solar and lunar (or Asiatic) civilisations is not limited to Christianity versus Heathenism, and must be considered also as a wide...
vandermok
charltonroad36 Offline Send Email
Dec 4, 2006
11:39 am

In my opinion the essence of Roman 'common sense' can be summed up in the banal but profound maxim, "Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi."...
Rowan Berkeley
rowan_berkeley Offline Send Email
Dec 2, 2006
1:11 pm

Paul Valéry, who translated Virgile and was a fine connoisseur of Roman civilisation as well as a censor of the modern West, became fond of that 'common...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 2, 2006
2:11 pm

For being my `own' slave I flay myself for parroting… In relation to the exposé of Nietzsche's absurdity via Evola's examination of the limitations entailed...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 2, 2006
9:37 pm

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-references-protocols-full-text-folder.html PROTOCOL No. 2 DESTRUCTIVE EDUCATION 3. Do not suppose for a moment that these...
darkiexx Offline Send Email Dec 2, 2006
9:47 pm

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