I think we all intuitively know that Guenon was basically the major formation of his Islamic ideas. Anything critical of the Muslim worldview would have been a complete excommunication from the Traditionalist camp (and he is already marginalized by them).
His view of Christianity as purely a destructive force and connected to the demon Set is a far leap though, in my opinion. Sure, there is the donkey, but we could also look at the water symbolism of the Christ cult.
The water symbolism of Christianity is purely a borrowed invention; there is no Judaistic source that would suggest a continution of the water cult, but we can see this in the cultural paths that overwhelmed the closed society of Judea at the cross roads of
Greece and India.
Therefore the baptism in water, 'everlasting waters,' the negative view of fire (hell is fire), walking on water, etc, could be seen as a continuation of Greek thought (Thales - all is water), or even Buddhistic symbolism (stream entry, the lotus rising from water, etc).
From: Evola <evola_as_he_is@...>
To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 2:20 PM
Subject: [evola_as_he_is] Re: De Giorgio (it was: Reghini and Pythagorism)
J. Evola's views on ancient Rome are based on a kind of knowledge of the Roman world and of the Latin language which most current European 'traditionalists', 'nationalists', 'Supremacists', 'Eurocentrists', 'Fascists', and the like, would be well advised to gain before venturing to question them 'omnis', and, as a result, Kerenyi's, Schelling's, Vico's, Altheim's, Piganiol's, de Coulanges', etc. (Did you miss the bibliography in 'Revolt against the Modern World' ?), especially when such questioning is not substantiated in any way.
The limitations of J. Evola's vision of Islam have already been discussed and adequately accounted for at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evola_as_he_is/message/1053 Anyone able to provide us with further insight is welcome to do so. However, do not start from scratch, but from THERE - or from any other sound basis.
P.s. : before raising an issue, every member is kindly asked to use the 'search' option to check whether or not it may already have been brought up. If it has, make sure you read the related messages, before you enter into the discussion. Some of the points or the criticisms you feel like making may have already been addressed.
--- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, Asdfasdsfdas Sfsdf <andreforcordelia@...> wrote:
>
> Tony, what in heaven's name are you talking about? I am quoting Nietzsche regarding the OP's question about rightist European view on Islam.....
>
> If you are willing to "resist me vigorously" for answering someone's question than your reign would be about as enjoyable as the current one, or worse.
>
> As far as I am concerned both Nietzsche and Evola (and it goes without saying all of the Mohammadanizing Traditionalists) were all extremely incorrect about Islam, and this brings into question their whole view on Rome and Greece, as well.
>
> So if you say that Nietzsche lived in a beta-male fantasy world (which he did), what does that say about Evola who inherited his view of 'the nobility' of Islam?
>
> And as far as I am concerned the only philosopher who "got it right" about Juda-ism, Christianity and Islam was Schopenhauer.
>
>
> -Andrew
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Tony Ciapo <hyperborean@...>
> To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:00 PM
> Subject: RE: [evola_as_he_is] De Giorgio (it was: Reghini and Pythagorism)
>
>
> Â
> You do understand, Mr. Sfsdf, that you are speaking ill of your blood ancestors (or at least I presume they are).
> Â
> So, if they were ignoble and chandalas, then so are you.
> Â
> Christians did not arrive as aliens in a UFO. The “church� was the creation of the Nordic-Roman interaction, as Evola has pointed out. If it fell short of Tradition, then it is because the Germans did not understand Tradition and the Romans had forgotten it.
> Â
> The German Theodoric was already a Christian when he entered Rome. The Visigoths could have chosen Islam in Spain … they did not. The Normans could have chosen Islam in Sicily … they did not. They took over the Arab castles in Salemi and Palermo and transformed them into something else; visit the chapel in Palermo, for example. Are we to take you seriously that the Normans, who recreated the Holy Roman Empire from that base, lacked manly instincts? It is more likely that Nietzsche had no idea what they are. He was a scribbler, a beta male, a “flop with chicks�; apparently he indulged in a vivid fantasy life. What he imagines hardly resembles Londonistan or the banlieues of Paris.
> Â
> Of course, the “free spirits� of Northern Europe, now that they are completely de-Christianized, are hardly decent, no matter how they personally feel about it. If you truly believe, Mr. Sfsdf, that the culture of the Moors is more suitable to Germans than the cultures of Greece and Rome, you will be resisted vigorously.
> Â
> Â
> Â
> From:evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com [mailto:evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Asdfasdsfdas Sfsdf
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:55 AM
> To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [evola_as_he_is] De Giorgio (it was: Reghini and Pythagorism)
> Â
> Â
> Â
> Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (â€"I do not say by what sort of feetâ€") Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its originâ€"because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life!… The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dustâ€"a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very “senile.â€�â€"What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich…. Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is
> fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won…. The German noble, always the “Swiss guardâ€� of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the churchâ€"but well paid…. Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious…. Christianity, alcoholâ€"the two great means of corruption…. Intrinsically there should be no more choice between Islam and Christianity than there is between an Arab and a Jew. The decision is already reached; nobody remains at liberty to choose here. Either a man is a Chandala or he is not…. “War to the knife with Rome!
> Peace and friendship with Islam!�: this was the feeling, this was the act, of that great free spirit, that genius among German emperors, Frederick II. What! must a German first be a genius, a free spirit, before he can feel decently? I can’t make out how a German could ever feel Christian….
> Â
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â&nbs p;Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â -Nietzsche
>
>
>
> But it is true that the majority of self-described 'right-wing' parties in Europe grovel and lick Jew boots, maybe with the exception of the Hungarians who are the only self-respecting Europeans left if political parties are any indication (and that can definitely be disputed).
>
The limitations of J. Evola's vision of Islam have already been discussed and adequately accounted for at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evola_as_he_is/message/1053 Anyone able to provide us with further insight is welcome to do so. However, do not start from scratch, but from THERE - or from any other sound basis.
P.s. : before raising an issue, every member is kindly asked to use the 'search' option to check whether or not it may already have been brought up. If it has, make sure you read the related messages, before you enter into the discussion. Some of the points or the criticisms you feel like making may have already been addressed.
--- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, Asdfasdsfdas Sfsdf <andreforcordelia@...> wrote:
>
> Tony, what in heaven's name are you talking about? I am quoting Nietzsche regarding the OP's question about rightist European view on Islam.....
>
> If you are willing to "resist me vigorously" for answering someone's question than your reign would be about as enjoyable as the current one, or worse.
>
> As far as I am concerned both Nietzsche and Evola (and it goes without saying all of the Mohammadanizing Traditionalists) were all extremely incorrect about Islam, and this brings into question their whole view on Rome and Greece, as well.
>
> So if you say that Nietzsche lived in a beta-male fantasy world (which he did), what does that say about Evola who inherited his view of 'the nobility' of Islam?
>
> And as far as I am concerned the only philosopher who "got it right" about Juda-ism, Christianity and Islam was Schopenhauer.
>
>
> -Andrew
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Tony Ciapo <hyperborean@...>
> To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:00 PM
> Subject: RE: [evola_as_he_is] De Giorgio (it was: Reghini and Pythagorism)
>
>
> Â
> You do understand, Mr. Sfsdf, that you are speaking ill of your blood ancestors (or at least I presume they are).
> Â
> So, if they were ignoble and chandalas, then so are you.
> Â
> Christians did not arrive as aliens in a UFO. The “church� was the creation of the Nordic-Roman interaction, as Evola has pointed out. If it fell short of Tradition, then it is because the Germans did not understand Tradition and the Romans had forgotten it.
> Â
> The German Theodoric was already a Christian when he entered Rome. The Visigoths could have chosen Islam in Spain … they did not. The Normans could have chosen Islam in Sicily … they did not. They took over the Arab castles in Salemi and Palermo and transformed them into something else; visit the chapel in Palermo, for example. Are we to take you seriously that the Normans, who recreated the Holy Roman Empire from that base, lacked manly instincts? It is more likely that Nietzsche had no idea what they are. He was a scribbler, a beta male, a “flop with chicks�; apparently he indulged in a vivid fantasy life. What he imagines hardly resembles Londonistan or the banlieues of Paris.
> Â
> Of course, the “free spirits� of Northern Europe, now that they are completely de-Christianized, are hardly decent, no matter how they personally feel about it. If you truly believe, Mr. Sfsdf, that the culture of the Moors is more suitable to Germans than the cultures of Greece and Rome, you will be resisted vigorously.
> Â
> Â
> Â
> From:evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com [mailto:evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Asdfasdsfdas Sfsdf
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:55 AM
> To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [evola_as_he_is] De Giorgio (it was: Reghini and Pythagorism)
> Â
> Â
> Â
> Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (â€"I do not say by what sort of feetâ€") Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its originâ€"because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life!… The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dustâ€"a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very “senile.â€�â€"What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich…. Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is
> fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won…. The German noble, always the “Swiss guardâ€� of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the churchâ€"but well paid…. Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious…. Christianity, alcoholâ€"the two great means of corruption…. Intrinsically there should be no more choice between Islam and Christianity than there is between an Arab and a Jew. The decision is already reached; nobody remains at liberty to choose here. Either a man is a Chandala or he is not…. “War to the knife with Rome!
> Peace and friendship with Islam!�: this was the feeling, this was the act, of that great free spirit, that genius among German emperors, Frederick II. What! must a German first be a genius, a free spirit, before he can feel decently? I can’t make out how a German could ever feel Christian….
> Â
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â&nbs p;Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â -Nietzsche
>
>
>
> But it is true that the majority of self-described 'right-wing' parties in Europe grovel and lick Jew boots, maybe with the exception of the Hungarians who are the only self-respecting Europeans left if political parties are any indication (and that can definitely be disputed).
>