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Re: Heathen Imperialism and barbarism.

It might be opportune at this point of the discussion to render here
an article by comparitive religions scholar Mircea Eliade which has
previously been published on the Mircea-Eliade-Online yahoo group
(Message #11).

INITIATION OF A WARRIOR: GOING BERSERK
by Mircea Eliade

----------------------------------------------------------------------



(Volsunga Saga, chapters 7-8)

In a passage that has become famous, the Ynglingasaga sets the
comrades of Odin before us: 'They went without shields, and were mad
as dogs or wolves, and bit on their shields, and were as strong as
bears or bulls; men they slew, and neither fire nor steel would deal
with them; and this is what is called the fury of the berserker.'
This mythological picture has been rightly identified as a
description of real men's societies-the famous Mannerbunde of the
ancient Germanic civilization. The berserkers were, literally,
the 'warriors in shirts (serkr) of bear.' This is as much as to say
that they were magically identified with the bear. In addition they
could sometimes change themselves into wolves and bears. A man became
a berserker as the result of an initiation that included specifically
martial ordeals. So, for example, Tacitus tells us that among the
Chatti the candidate cut neither his hair nor his beard until he had
killed an enemy. Among the Taifali, the youth had to bring down a
boar or a wolf, among the Heruli, he had to fight unarmed. Through
these ordeals, the candidate took to himself a wild-animal mode of
being; he became a dreaded warrior in the measure in which he behaved
like a beast of prey. He metamorphosed himself into a superman
because he succeeded in assimilating the magico-religious force
proper to the carnivore.

The Volsunga Saga has preserved the memory of certain ordeals typical
of the initiations of berserkers. By treachery, King Siggeir obtains
possession of his nine brothers-in-law, the Volsungs. Chained to a
beam, they are all eaten by a she-wolf, except Sigmund, Who is saved
by a ruse of his sister Signy. Hidden in a hut in the depths of the
forest, where Signy brings him food, he awaits the hour of revenge.
When her first two sons have reached the age of ten, Signy sends them
to Sigmund to be tested. Sigmund finds that they are cowards, and by
his advice Signy kills them. As the result of her incestuous
relations with her brother, Signy has a third son, Sinfjotli. When he
is nearly ten, his mother submits him to a first ordeal: she sews his
shirt to his arms through the skin. Siggeir's sons, submitted to the
same ordeal, had howled with pain, but Sinfjotli remains
imperturbable. His mother then pulls off his shirt, tearing away the
skin, and asks him if he feels anything. The boy answers that a
Volsung is not troubled by such a trifle. His mother then sends him
to Sigmund, who submits him to the same ordeal that Siggeir's two
sons had failed to sustain: he orders him to make bread from a sack
of flour in which there is a snake. When Sigmund comes home that
night, he finds the bread baked and asks Sinfjotli if be did not find
anything in the flour. The boy answers that he remembers having seen
something, but he paid no attention to it and kneaded everything up
together. After this proof of courage Sigmund takes the boy into the
forest with him. One day they find two wolfskins hanging from the
wall of a hut. The two sons of a king had been transformed into
wolves and could only come out of the skins every tenth day. Sigmund
and Sinfjotli put on the skins, but cannot get them off. They howl
like wolves and understand the wolves' language. They then separate,
agreeing that they will not call on each other for help unless they
have to deal with more than seven men. One day Sinfjotli is summoned
to help and kills all the men who bad attacked Sigmund. Another time,
Sinfjotli himself is attacked by eleven men, and kills them without
summoning Sigmund to help him. Then Sigmund rushes at him and bites
him in the throat, but not long afterward finds a way to cure the
wound. Finally they return to their cabin to await the moment when
they can put off their wolfskins. When the time comes, they throw the
skins into the fire. With this episode, Sinfjotli's initiation is
completed, and he can avenge the slaying of the Volsungs.

The initiatory themes here are obvious: the test of courage,
resistance to physical suffering, followed by magical transformation
into a wolf. But the compiler of the Volsunga Saga was no longer
aware of the original meaning of the transformation. Sigmund and
Sinfjotli find the skins by chance and do not know how to take them
off. Now transformation into a wolf-that is, the ritual donning of a
wolfskin constituted the essential moment of initiation into a men's
secret society. By putting on the skin, the initiand assimilated the
behaviour of a wolf, in other words, he became a wild-beast warrior,
irresistible and invulnerable. 'Wolf' was the appellation of the
members of the Indo-European military societies.

--

Given the above, I think your appellation of "shamanic warrior" is not
completely out of place here.



--- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, Savitar Devi
<savitar_devi@y...> wrote:
>
> Bersekrs are a special incident of 'barbarism' due to the
induction of an altered mind state. As has already been explained in
the earlier quote from Dumezil, the notion of 'mystic heat', frenzy,
tapas, or whatever one wishes to refer to it as is induced via a form
of primordial shamanism. This is not restricted to use in the Nordic
tradition either, as Dumezil also mentions it is found widely (under
different names) across all Indo-European traditions. Hence these
barbarians, may not be barbarians all of the time, and should not be
viewed as primitive savages. Rather a type of shamanic warrior.
>
> Would the imagery of the 'berserkr' also tie into Evola's Doctrine
of Battle and Victory?
>
>
> darklittleflame <ads694@h...> wrote:
> "The power of a new Middle Ages is needed - a revolt, interior as
> well as exterior, of a barbaric purity."
>
> Is there any ambiguity regarding the word Evola originally uses
> for 'barbaric'?
>
> I am just wondering how Evola saw this 'barbarism' as differing from
> the "uncouth and ferocious" attitude of the semites. Also, given
> such views, can anyone elaborate on how Evola viewed such
> things as 'bersekrs'? Were these perhaps ferocious but not uncouth?
>
> Following the above quote Evola then seems to suggest that
> this 'barbarism' is a precursor necessary to clear the way for a
> true restoration of the primordial nordic tradition.
>
> "The one who enters the temple, however much of a barbarian he may
> be (is this a tone of disparagement?), has the unquestionable duty
> to drive out [the] corrupters...
>
> To all this [corruption] must be said: "Enough!", so that some men
> at least can recover the long roads, the long danger, the long gaze,
> and the long silence ; so that the wind of the open sea can blow
> again - the wind of the Nordic primordial tradition - to reawaken
> the sleepers of the West."
>
> Given the possible tone of disparagement towards these barbarians,
> was 'barbarism' here perhaps used as an appeal and attempt to give
> an impetus to the more 'uncouth and ferocious' elements of
> the 'popular' Right wing movements of the time that would be more
> in line with Evola's attempt to restore Tradition? I do not know
> enough regarding the context of publication so would be interested
> in what others have to say.
>
>
> --- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "evola_as_he_is"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Given the regrettable indiscretion which was committed three weeks
> > ago on another e-list and of which we got to hear, it would be
> > useless to keep it secret for a longer period of time.
> >
> > 'Heathen Imperialism' is based on 'Heidnischer Imperialismus', and
> > not on 'Imperialismo pagano', be it only because the former is far
> > more accomplished.
> >
> > Basically, 'Heidnischer Imperialismus' is so different
> > from 'Imperialismo pagano' that the former cannot be considered as
> a
> > mere revised and expanded edition of the latter. Differences
> between
> > them are far too numerous and important to be identified and given
> > via footnotes, not to mention that footnoting a book like this
> poses
> > serious problems of lay-out, which would make its reading rather
> > acrobatic, especially since both books contain their own
> footnotes.
> > All those who have published 'Imperialismo pagano', whether the
> > original or its French translation, renounced to do it.
> >
> > Speaking of footnotes, we are thinking of an original and most
> > convenient way of giving them without inserting them in the actual
> > book.
> >
> > One more word about http://evola.frih.net : when that picture we
> > mentioned yesterday is taken and downloaded on it, the site will
> > change name and be called, as it is now,
> > http://evola_as_he_is.frih.net .
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "darklittleflame"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Given discussion in past posts are we to assume that an English
> > > translation of Heathen Imperialism will be made available at
> some
> > time?
> > > If so, will it be based on the original Italian or the German
> > version,
> > > which I understand had a number of changes made? And would such
> > > differences and their significance be identified via footnotes
> or
> > an
> > > introduction?
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Three heavens there are; two Savitar's, adjacent:
> In Yama's world is one, home of heroes.
> As on a linch-pin, firm, rest things immortal:
> He who hath known it, let him here declare it.
>
> - Rig Veda I.35 (Griffith)
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends
http://in.messenger.yahoo.com
>









Mon Jan 9, 2006 1:55 pm

zenon_noir
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Given discussion in past posts are we to assume that an English translation of Heathen Imperialism will be made available at some time? If so, will it be based...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 6, 2006
9:08 am

Given the regrettable indiscretion which was committed three weeks ago on another e-list and of which we got to hear, it would be useless to keep it secret for...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 6, 2006
1:47 pm

"The power of a new Middle Ages is needed - a revolt, interior as well as exterior, of a barbaric purity." Is there any ambiguity regarding the word Evola...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 8, 2006
10:24 am

"We may call the Germanic peoples which invaded Rome 'barbarians', but not with respect to the degenerate Roman civilisation in which those peoples appeared,...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 8, 2006
6:18 pm

Thank you for the quote, most helpful. I am certainly aware of the timeless aspects of 'heathen imperialism,' which transcend any particular historical...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
9:25 am

It is safe to assume that Evola, in 'Heidnischer Imperialismus' as well as in his other works, appealed above all to the 'best ones'. As for those you call...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 10, 2006
12:55 pm

... I was just going by the following from an interview with Julien Hervier: HERVIER: What was your position on the Nazi movement during its early stages? ...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 11, 2006
9:07 am

If this statement also includes contemporary 'fascism' then I can supply a long list of 'uncouth' elements - skinheads, oi punks, NSDAP Satanists, National...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 9, 2006
9:25 am

It doesn't ; otherwise we would have spoken of 'neo-Fascists', but we are grateful to you for offering us the opportunity to correct a slip of the tongue we...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
8:46 pm

Inexplicable typing errors strike even the best of us from time to time... evola_as_he_is <evola_as_he_is@...> wrote: It doesn't ; otherwise we would...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 10, 2006
10:04 am

The Ms Lemon secretary type is long gone. ... to time... ... we ... slip ... of ... http://in.messenger.yahoo.com...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 10, 2006
1:17 pm

Bersekrs are a special incident of 'barbarism' due to the induction of an altered mind state. As has already been explained in the earlier quote from Dumezil,...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 9, 2006
9:25 am

It might be opportune at this point of the discussion to render here an article by comparitive religions scholar Mircea Eliade which has previously been...
zenon_noir Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
2:18 pm

It might be opportune at this point of the discussion to render here an article by comparitive religions scholar Mircea Eliade which has previously been...
zenon_noir Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
2:18 pm

"Given the above, I think your appellation of "shamanic warrior" is not completely out of place here". That is, if one agrees with and is willing to use...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
2:25 pm

Obviously I have been reading too much Eliade of late, if one can spot a reference to Eliade without me even citing his name. He does to tend to see shamanism...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 10, 2006
10:02 am

"That is, if one agrees with and is willing to use Eliade's terminology. Basically, he sees Shamen everywhere, just like others see fertility cults...
zenon_noir Offline Send Email Jan 10, 2006
10:03 am

"A dominating race can grow up only out of terrible and violent beginnings. Problem: where are the barbarians of the twentieth century? Obviously, they will...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
8:32 pm

... Seems a fairly big leap to go from the individual acts Nietzsche refers to in this passage to mass murder on an industrial sized scale. You neglect to add...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 10, 2006
10:03 am

Of course it is up to debate whether ... I disagree. Its tiresome that N. is always taken out of context and his dislike of petty nationalism and his remarks...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 10, 2006
7:48 pm

... This is probably not the place to discuss Nietzsche's views on these matters in more depth given that it is a forum devoted to Evola. However, I never...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 11, 2006
9:07 am

... Semitism ... the ... 1. BGE, 251 - ""Let no more Jews come in! And shut the doors, especially towards the East (also towards Austria)!" - thus commands the...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 11, 2006
10:32 pm

Those who have read 'Three Aspects of the Jewish Problem' should see what Nietzsche's views on Jews and Evola's have in common and what distinguishes them. It...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 14, 2006
11:22 am

Thank you for your interest. I urge that N.'s BGE, 251 be read more carefully; quote - "That the Jews could, if they wanted - or if they were compelled, as the...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 15, 2006
8:26 pm

Evola studied three aspects of the Jewish problem, and, in fact, more than just three of them, besides being deeply interested in Nietzsche's work, in which...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 11, 2006
12:47 pm

Thank you very much for that reference! Regards. ... more ... therefore ... published...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 11, 2006
10:31 pm

In 'Revolt against the Modern World', chapter XI, Evola speaks of "prehistoric purity" about the Germans mentioned by Tacitus, stating: "What found expression...
vandermok
charltonroad36 Offline Send Email
Jan 9, 2006
4:21 pm

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