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Julius Evola and The 'Independent Theosophical Association of Rome'   Message List  
Reply Message #518 of 1563 |
Julius Evola and The 'Woman Question'


The description you make of Baudelaire can be applied to thousands of
other men, to hundreds of other artists, whose work, however, was not
quoted in 'Metaphysics of Sex', which does not deal with opinions,
but with ideas.

Considering that Baudelaire's views on women are closely akin to that
of the other modern writers we mentioned, to that of all the great
ancient European writers and philosophers, and that not all of them
were "notoriously masochistic in (their) relationships with women and
actively sought out females that would in some way either emotionally
or physically abuse (them)", nor were they all "somewhat perversely
(...) attracted to" lesbians, it may be granted that that 'opinion',
which we would rather call an 'idea', originates in something higher
than the sexual plane, it being understood that that plane does not
constitute a criterion from a purely spiritual standpoint. Basically,
the question is whether a given individual is wholly conditioned, on
the plane of action and on that of thought, by sexuality or whether
that plane is determined, ruled and shaped in him by a higher
principle which remains completely free towards it. In this case, it
is a mistake to judge his actions and his ideas according to his
sexual orientation, a mistake which is made by those who, for
instance, try to discredit Yockey's work on that basis ; that trap
Yockey didn't fall into when, in 'Imperium', he criticises with an
ill-concealed disgust Baudelaire's poetry ; had he fallen into it, he
would have made a double mistake : the first one, which he actually
made, was to consider and to dismiss Baudelaire's work as a mere
product of nihilism and decadence devoid of any positive counterpart,
a positive counterpart which Evola, as for him, has perfectly seen,
and duly highlighted in 'Metaphysics of Sex' ; the second would have
been linked to the fact that his sexual orientations seem to have
been rather Baudelairian.

This too can be considered to a certain extent as quite Baudelairian,
leaving aside sexuality and poetry : "As a negative aspect, wherever
that disposition (the natural detachment from the human) appeared
confusedly, and involved my mere individuality, it generated a
certain insensibility and a coldness of soul" ('Il Cammino del
cinabro', p. 12).

Finally, what is also Baudelairian is the fact of not putting male
homosexuality and female homosexuality on the same plane.

The male-friend of Blavatsky who tried to make his dreams come true
by going so far as to homosexualise Tantric texts was Leadbetter,
an "agressive homosexual" if we are to believe the writer who
clarifies that point : "Hindu Buddhist Tantric texts do indeed use
sexual models and analogues in their esoteric tracts, so it is quite
in order if scholars and practitioners use these texts in support of
their sexual behavior, because the support is objectively there. But
no Tantric text implies any but heterosexual relations in its corpus.
The most recent authentic presentation of the place of sexuality in
Tibetan Tantrism (1) should suffice as a document for the rejection
of the esoteric innuendos in Leadbetter's writings". Please note that
this clarification is made by someone who thinks "the Gay Freedom
movement is well taken and should succeed" (
http://www.khandro.net/Rampa.htm ).




--- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, Savitar Devi
<savitar_devi@y...> wrote:
>
> Your theory on the charity movement is interesting. I had once
heard that the rise of feminism was linked with the philosophy of
John Stuart Mill; however I have not explored this angle. Given that
feminism (as it currently exists) seems to be overtly modelled on a
total rejection of anything feminine, it seems likely that there was
male hand at play in its shaping.
>
> I don't think that one should relay too closely on Baudelaire's
opinion of women - the man was notoriously masochistic in his
relationships with women and actively sought out females that would
in some way either emotionally or physically abuse him. Hence the
type of women (in most instances, cruel whores, lesbians or other
forms of succubi) he is writing about, he is also, somewhat
perversely, attracted to. 'Flowers of Evil' is largely written in
praise of lesbians.
>
> Homosexual Tantra is simply not possible, no matter how much
homosexuals of either sex would like to appropriate it for themselves.
>
>
> evola_as_he_is <evola_as_he_is@y...> wrote:
>
> Although that question has not been studied yet, there are strong
> grounds for thinking that the rise of the femininist movement is
> closely linked to the development of the charity movement, which
was
> launched at the end of the XVIIth century in England by females of
> the bourgeoisie and by women of a certain aristocracy, namely the
> Urban one, whose husbands were involved in the so-called
> ongoing 'industrial revolution' and, therefore, in the uprooting
and
> in the pauperisation of the people. Here, it's not a case of the
left
> hand - the businessman's wife - giving back what the right hand -
the
> businessman - has taken away, or it is so only apparently : in
fact,
> the right hand takes away freedom, the relative and organic outer
> freedom which the ancestors of the peasants and of the workers of
> that time had, while the left hand gives handouts in return to
them,
> it being understood that 'handouts' is an euphemism for 'slavery'
and
> that the ancient slave had far more freedom in a generic sense than
> the modern slave, be it only because it is the little inner freedom
> that those individuals who accept charity may have which is taken
> away from them. The whole thing has been running smoothly since the
> beginning of the XIXth century. Left-right-left-right-let-right-
left-
> right-left-right. The whole thing is based on 8 and resentment.
When
> both hands meet, it's called 'charity business'.
>
> Once again, the considerations developed on the feminine nature and
> its consequences by Friedrich Nietzsche, Otto Weininger, as well as
> by Baudelaire, Gustave Flaubert, by Villiers de l'Isle-Adam, the
last
> offspring of one of the most ancient aristocratic Frank family,
> in 'L'Eve future', and by other French novelists of the late XIXth
> century, who, unlike their English counterparts, didn't have to
rely
> on the money of wealthy female intellectuals to be published,
spring
> to mind. "There seems to be a qualitative judgement formed by
women,
> that if something is written by another woman, then it must be of
> merit", and, we would add, that if something is written by another
> woman or by a male homosexual.
>
> As is well-known, one of the best male-friends of Blavatsky, who
> accompanied her to India on her first visit to that country and who
> interpreted Tantric practices from an homosexual standpoint, was a
> male homosexual. As is also well-known, it's been a long time since
> the 'House of Commons', the 'Reichstag' and the 'Assemblée
nationale'
> have turned into - to be polite - a true 'birdcages'.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Three heavens there are; two Savitar's, adjacent:
> In Yama's world is one, home of heroes.
> As on a linch-pin, firm, rest things immortal:
> He who hath known it, let him here declare it.
>
> - Rig Veda I.35 (Griffith)
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends
http://in.messenger.yahoo.com
>










Mon Jan 2, 2006 1:47 pm

evola_as_he_is
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Message #518 of 1563 |
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The 'Independent Theosophical Association of Rome' was established in 1897 by two groups of Roman Theosophists which existed since 1895 over a lending library...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 26, 2005
8:42 pm

Did not Theosophy in general, attract many ladies due to the presence of Madame Blavatsky? There seems to be a qualitative judgement formed by women, that if...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Dec 29, 2005
11:08 am

As early as 1925 in 'L'individuo e il divenire del mondo', an implicit reference was made by Evola to Nietzsche : "The I, basically, is not a thing, a 'fact',...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 29, 2005
3:48 pm

It is ultimately very Nietzschean to disagree with Nietzsche, so paradoxically it is actually a far greater credit to Nietzsche that Evola plays by providing a...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Dec 31, 2005
9:37 am

... I read Nietzsche as emphasizing `the reality of chaos and of the irrational' not as a `ground' to replace the nihilistic otherworldly fictions of...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Dec 31, 2005
11:16 pm

Alain Danielou links Shiva (male Tantric essence) directly with Dionysus in his work 'Gods of Love and Ecstasy'. If one reads it though, they should be aware...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 1, 2006
11:39 pm

At this point, it may not be a luxury to say a few words about Nietzsche's views on woman. To do this, a convenient starting point is given to us by the...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 3, 2006
9:39 pm

Interesting, I was not aware of that statement in the 'Unpublished Notebooks'. Maya, is of course also a woman - at once the demon architect, and the essence...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 4, 2006
9:23 am

... More, directly from his works. "Man should be trained for war and woman for the recreation of the warrior : all else is folly..." (Thus Spake Zarathustra,...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 5, 2006
4:57 pm

What about this little extract? 'Will and willingness - Someone took a youth to a sage and said: "Look, he is being corrupted by women." The sage shook his...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 5, 2006
10:31 pm

One should not have a fixation about the figure of the Nietzschean 'Superman', indeed. Spengler - if we are not mistaken, it was him - rightly noted that,...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 2, 2006
11:09 am

That professor who coined the potent expression 'anti-Nazi sex-shop literature' to describe everything which is linked with the caricatural representation of...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 3, 2006
9:48 am

It doesn't look like Theosophy attracted many ladies due to the presence of Blavatsky. Her early followers, as you suspect, were mostly males, at least in...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 31, 2005
9:37 am

Your theory on the charity movement is interesting. I had once heard that the rise of feminism was linked with the philosophy of John Stuart Mill; however I...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 1, 2006
11:41 pm

The description you make of Baudelaire can be applied to thousands of other men, to hundreds of other artists, whose work, however, was not quoted in...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 2, 2006
1:50 pm

Firstly, before continuing my problem with the inclusion of Baudelaire with the other writers cited, I must proclaim that I was at one, time an avid fan of...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 3, 2006
9:41 am

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