Skip to search.

Breaking News Visit Yahoo! News for the latest.

×Close this window

rouesolaire · rouesolaire@yahoo.fr | Group Member  - Edit Membership Start a Group | My Groups
evola_as_he_is · EVOLA AS HE IS

The Yahoo! Groups Product Blog

Check it out!

Group Information

  • Members: 121
  • Category: Spirituality
  • Founded: Nov 19, 2004
  • Language: English

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Message search is now enhanced, find messages faster. Take it for a spin.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Julius Evola and The 'Independent Theosophical Association of Rome'   Message List  
Reply Message #524 of 1563 |
Re: [evola_as_he_is] Julius Evola and The 'Woman Question'

Firstly, before continuing my problem with the inclusion of Baudelaire with the other writers cited, I must proclaim that I was at one, time an avid fan of Baudelaire and still think he ranks amongst the greatest of poets.
 
However, a good poet does not necessarily equate with a good thinker nor a philosopher. A poet works with the senses and the emotions; they are not by nature capable of perception outside of a limited sphere of reality nor capable of passing judgement (with the exception of aesthetics) as they cannot experience reality subjectively. A poet, in sum, is not a rational creature - therefore any judgement passed on an external reality will be linked to the poets own experience. I do not think that this statement can be applied to any of the other writers you cited - it is purely that Baudelaire's work is one of the emotion and not of the intellect. 'Spleen and Ideal', whilst it makes a lovely motif for pathos and angst, seems far too simple to reveal anything more than a doom laden erotic sentiment. Perhaps his concept of the 'Muse' does have some relation to mysticism, and probably relates a little to anima/animus attractions, but that doesn't make it logical to project Baudelaire's 'Evil Anima' on to anyone else.
 
Baudelaire, as he himself states is somewhat of a 'Heautontimoroumenos', which is regardless of any metaphysical merit there may be in his works, not a pleasurable state for anyone to be in. Therefore, as Baudelaire bequests of his reader, (Epigraph for a Condemned Book) I am quite content to 'pity him instead of receiving his curses'.
 
Male and female homosexuals are most certainly different I agree, though I cannot pinpoint any piece in which Baudelaire refers to male homosexuals, so I cannot see how this idea relates to Baudelaire?
 
Agehanada Bharati is allegedly a Tantric himself and generally relays things reliably, though as your note about the 'gay movement' comment conveys, he is somewhat of an apologist - no doubt he added his 'disclaimer' in hopes of receiving a medal for his political correctness at the next pancamakara-sadhana ;) 

evola_as_he_is <evola_as_he_is@...> wrote:

The description you make of Baudelaire can be applied to thousands of
other men, to hundreds of other artists, whose work, however, was not
quoted in 'Metaphysics of Sex', which does not deal with opinions,
but with ideas.

Considering that Baudelaire's views on women are closely akin to that
of the other modern writers we mentioned, to that of all the great
ancient European writers and philosophers, and that not all of them
were "notoriously masochistic in (their) relationships with women and
actively sought out females that would in some way either emotionally
or physically abuse (them)", nor were they all "somewhat perversely
(...) attracted to" lesbians, it may be granted that that 'opinion',
which we would rather call an 'idea', originates in something higher
than the sexual plane, it being understood that that plane does not
constitute a criterion from a purely spiritual standpoint. Basically,
the question is whether a given individual is wholly conditioned, on
the plane of action and on that of thought, by sexuality or whether
that plane is determined, ruled and shaped in him by a higher
principle which remains completely free towards it. In this case, it
is a mistake to judge his actions and his ideas according to his
sexual orientation, a mistake which is made by those who, for
instance, try to discredit Yockey's work on that basis ; that trap
Yockey didn't fall into when, in 'Imperium', he criticises with an
ill-concealed disgust Baudelaire's poetry ; had he fallen into it, he
would have made a double mistake : the first one, which he actually
made, was to consider and to dismiss Baudelaire's work as a mere
product of nihilism and decadence devoid of any positive counterpart,
a positive counterpart which Evola, as for him, has perfectly seen,
and duly highlighted in 'Metaphysics of Sex' ; the second would have
been linked to the fact that his sexual orientations seem to have
been rather Baudelairian.

This too can be considered to a certain extent as quite Baudelairian,
leaving aside sexuality and poetry : "As a negative aspect, wherever
that disposition (the natural detachment from the human) appeared
confusedly, and involved my mere individuality, it generated a
certain insensibility and a coldness of soul" ('Il Cammino del
cinabro', p. 12).

Finally, what is also Baudelairian is the fact of not putting male
homosexuality and female homosexuality on the same plane.

The male-friend of Blavatsky who tried to make his dreams come true
by going so far as to homosexualise Tantric texts was Leadbetter,
an "agressive homosexual" if we are to believe the writer who
clarifies that point : "Hindu Buddhist Tantric texts do indeed use
sexual models and analogues in their esoteric tracts, so it is quite
in order if scholars and practitioners use these texts in support of
their sexual behavior, because the support is objectively there. But
no Tantric text implies any but heterosexual relations in its corpus.
The most recent authentic presentation of the place of sexuality in
Tibetan Tantrism (1) should suffice as a document for the rejection
of the esoteric innuendos in Leadbetter's writings". Please note that
this clarification is made by someone who thinks "the Gay Freedom
movement is well taken and should succeed" (
http://www.khandro.net/Rampa.htm ).






Three heavens there are; two Savitar's, adjacent:
In Yama's world is one, home of heroes.
As on a linch-pin, firm, rest things immortal:
He who hath known it, let him here declare it.
 
- Rig Veda I.35 (Griffith)

Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com

Tue Jan 3, 2006 3:00 am

savitar_devi
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
Message #524 of 1563 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

The 'Independent Theosophical Association of Rome' was established in 1897 by two groups of Roman Theosophists which existed since 1895 over a lending library...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 26, 2005
8:42 pm

Did not Theosophy in general, attract many ladies due to the presence of Madame Blavatsky? There seems to be a qualitative judgement formed by women, that if...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Dec 29, 2005
11:08 am

As early as 1925 in 'L'individuo e il divenire del mondo', an implicit reference was made by Evola to Nietzsche : "The I, basically, is not a thing, a 'fact',...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 29, 2005
3:48 pm

It is ultimately very Nietzschean to disagree with Nietzsche, so paradoxically it is actually a far greater credit to Nietzsche that Evola plays by providing a...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Dec 31, 2005
9:37 am

... I read Nietzsche as emphasizing `the reality of chaos and of the irrational' not as a `ground' to replace the nihilistic otherworldly fictions of...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Dec 31, 2005
11:16 pm

Alain Danielou links Shiva (male Tantric essence) directly with Dionysus in his work 'Gods of Love and Ecstasy'. If one reads it though, they should be aware...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 1, 2006
11:39 pm

At this point, it may not be a luxury to say a few words about Nietzsche's views on woman. To do this, a convenient starting point is given to us by the...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 3, 2006
9:39 pm

Interesting, I was not aware of that statement in the 'Unpublished Notebooks'. Maya, is of course also a woman - at once the demon architect, and the essence...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 4, 2006
9:23 am

... More, directly from his works. "Man should be trained for war and woman for the recreation of the warrior : all else is folly..." (Thus Spake Zarathustra,...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 5, 2006
4:57 pm

What about this little extract? 'Will and willingness - Someone took a youth to a sage and said: "Look, he is being corrupted by women." The sage shook his...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 5, 2006
10:31 pm

One should not have a fixation about the figure of the Nietzschean 'Superman', indeed. Spengler - if we are not mistaken, it was him - rightly noted that,...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 2, 2006
11:09 am

That professor who coined the potent expression 'anti-Nazi sex-shop literature' to describe everything which is linked with the caricatural representation of...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 3, 2006
9:48 am

It doesn't look like Theosophy attracted many ladies due to the presence of Blavatsky. Her early followers, as you suspect, were mostly males, at least in...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Dec 31, 2005
9:37 am

Your theory on the charity movement is interesting. I had once heard that the rise of feminism was linked with the philosophy of John Stuart Mill; however I...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 1, 2006
11:41 pm

The description you make of Baudelaire can be applied to thousands of other men, to hundreds of other artists, whose work, however, was not quoted in...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 2, 2006
1:50 pm

Firstly, before continuing my problem with the inclusion of Baudelaire with the other writers cited, I must proclaim that I was at one, time an avid fan of...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 3, 2006
9:41 am

Copyright © 2012 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Copyright Policy - Guidelines NEW - Help