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Heathen Imperialism and 'barbarism'.


It is safe to assume that Evola, in 'Heidnischer Imperialismus' as
well as in his other works, appealed above all to the 'best ones'. As
for those you call uncouth Fascists, who, for some of them, were
likely to see some likeness between their positions and those who
were criticised by Evola at that time, if you read their criticisms
against Evola, you'd realise that it would have been a waste of time
to try to exert some kind of influence on individuals who had stooped
so low as to advocating things such as a racism based on muscular
force.

Was it the 'kristallnacht' affair which caused Jünger to distance
himself from National Socialism ? To start with, Jünger was never too
close to it and, consequently, was likely not to have and to be able
to gather first-hand information about that affair. In any case,
Jünger was clearheaded enough to realise that the 'Kristallnacht' was
launched by low-rank elements of the NSDAP, and that it was not
approved of by the German leadership, which considered it as a big
mistake, in a sense that it gave another pretext for the Jews to
declare war upon Germany.

The 'uncouth and ferocious warlike' character which the affirmation
of the virile principle assumes among Semites can certainly be found
also among the lower human 'Aryan' types, among the lower strata of
the White population, for reasons which, for most of them, are most
probably linked to age-old cross-breeding. Take, for instance, the
Parisian pre-proletariat which was used as a mere manpower by the
1789 revolutionaries to carry out the dirty work ; the infra-human
outburst which characterised their behaviour is closely akin to that
of the Canadian and English aviators which, as evidenced by the
author of 'The Destruction of Dresde', bombarded knowingly Dresde's
hospitals, carrying out strikes which it is unfortunately not cynical
to call surgical on the maternity homes. Now, let's not forget whom
was behind the Allies as well as behind the French revolutionaries.



--- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "darklittleflame"
<ads694@h...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for the quote, most helpful.
>
> I am certainly aware of the timeless aspects of 'heathen
> imperialism,' which transcend any particular historical situation.
> My concern with context was only due to wondering if Evola, at the
> time of writing, had a specific audience in mind whom he may have
> seen as playing the role of these 'barbarians.'
>
> My wondering whether it was an attempt to give a more suitable
> impetus to uncouth elements of popular movements of the time, and
> given that we are referring to the German version, I had in mind
> such phenomena as kristallnacht. An event that caused Junger to
> distance himself from the Nazi movement and was the source of his
> conception for 'On the Marble Cliffs.' No doubt given Evola's anti-
> semitism he would have seen such things as driving corruption out
of
> the temple, but such things would be ultimately futile if not
formed
> from 'above' and would only lead to a new form of corruption.
>
>
> --- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "evola_as_he_is"
> <evola_as_he_is@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > "We may call the Germanic peoples which invaded
Rome 'barbarians',
> > but not with respect to the degenerate Roman civilisation in
which
> > those peoples appeared, but with respect to a higher state, from
> > which they had fallen".
> >
> > Those words we quoted in message 293 are taken from 'Sintesi di
> > dottrina della razza', and we would think that they answer quite
> well
> > your question. Each time Evola uses in that context that term
> loaded
> > with derogatory connotations it has a relatively positive
> meaning ;
> > the same thing goes for 'berserkers' ; the frenzy those warriors
> > worked themselves in before the battle is identified, for
instance
> > in 'Heidnischer Imperialismus', with Roman 'furor'. Those terms
> are
> > so fraught with bad connotations that they can hardly be used in
> any
> > discussion and that, when using them in a relatively positive
> sense,
> > one cannot but sound slightly ironical : "The one who enters the
> > temple, however much of a barbarian he may be, has the
> unquestionable
> > duty to drive out [the] corrupters..."
> >
> > In 'The Destiny of the Warrior' (Chicago, U. of Chicago P.,
1969),
> > Dumézil points out that the name 'Odhinn' derives from the Old
> > Norse 'odur', related to the German 'wut',
meaning 'rage', 'fury',
> > and to the Gothic 'wods', 'possessed'. The berserker is closely
> > associated in many respects with the god Odhinn. Adam of Bremen
> > describes the Allfather as "Wodan - id est furor". Basically, it
> is
> > likely that the berserker was actually a member of the cult of
> > Odhinn. However this may be, cases of possession by forces from
> above
> > should not be mistaken for cases of possession from forces from
> > below, as has been done by the Church, which, as has been shown
by
> > various studies, managed to replace the warrior type of
> > the 'berserker' with its 'Chivalry'.
> >
> > Leaving aside, perhaps, Farinacci, do you see many 'uncouth and
> > ferocious' elements in the Fascist movement?
> >
> > Regarding the context of publication of 'Heidnischer
> Imperialismus',
> > let's be quite clear about it : if this book needs to be
> > contextualised to a certain extent, it cannot be brought back to
> the
> > mere context of that time : whether one likes it or not, many of
> the
> > problems which have been raised in 'Heidnischer Imperialismus'
are
> > age-old problems which, for most of them, are still most
pregnant.
> > Have a fixation on the 'context', and you'll miss what is
> essential
> > in it.
> >
> >
> > --- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "darklittleflame"
> > <ads694@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > "The power of a new Middle Ages is needed - a revolt, interior
> as
> > > well as exterior, of a barbaric purity."
> > >
> > > Is there any ambiguity regarding the word Evola originally uses
> > > for 'barbaric'?
> > >
> > > I am just wondering how Evola saw this 'barbarism' as differing
> > from
> > > the "uncouth and ferocious" attitude of the semites. Also,
given
> > > such views, can anyone elaborate on how Evola viewed such
> > > things as 'bersekrs'? Were these perhaps ferocious but not
> uncouth?
> > >
> > > Following the above quote Evola then seems to suggest that
> > > this 'barbarism' is a precursor necessary to clear the way for
a
> > > true restoration of the primordial nordic tradition.
> > >
> > > "The one who enters the temple, however much of a barbarian he
> may
> > > be (is this a tone of disparagement?), has the unquestionable
> duty
> > > to drive out [the] corrupters...
> > >
> > > To all this [corruption] must be said: "Enough!", so that some
> men
> > > at least can recover the long roads, the long danger, the long
> > gaze,
> > > and the long silence ; so that the wind of the open sea can
blow
> > > again - the wind of the Nordic primordial tradition - to
> reawaken
> > > the sleepers of the West."
> > >
> > > Given the possible tone of disparagement towards these
> barbarians,
> > > was 'barbarism' here perhaps used as an appeal and attempt to
> give
> > > an impetus to the more 'uncouth and ferocious' elements of
> > > the 'popular' Right wing movements of the time that would be
> more
> > > in line with Evola's attempt to restore Tradition? I do not
know
> > > enough regarding the context of publication so would be
> interested
> > > in what others have to say.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "evola_as_he_is"
> > > <evola_as_he_is@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Given the regrettable indiscretion which was committed three
> > weeks
> > > > ago on another e-list and of which we got to hear, it would
be
> > > > useless to keep it secret for a longer period of time.
> > > >
> > > > 'Heathen Imperialism' is based on 'Heidnischer
Imperialismus',
> > and
> > > > not on 'Imperialismo pagano', be it only because the former
is
> > far
> > > > more accomplished.
> > > >
> > > > Basically, 'Heidnischer Imperialismus' is so different
> > > > from 'Imperialismo pagano' that the former cannot be
> considered
> > as
> > > a
> > > > mere revised and expanded edition of the latter. Differences
> > > between
> > > > them are far too numerous and important to be identified and
> > given
> > > > via footnotes, not to mention that footnoting a book like
this
> > > poses
> > > > serious problems of lay-out, which would make its reading
> rather
> > > > acrobatic, especially since both books contain their own
> > > footnotes.
> > > > All those who have published 'Imperialismo pagano', whether
> the
> > > > original or its French translation, renounced to do it.
> > > >
> > > > Speaking of footnotes, we are thinking of an original and
most
> > > > convenient way of giving them without inserting them in the
> > actual
> > > > book.
> > > >
> > > > One more word about http://evola.frih.net : when that picture
> we
> > > > mentioned yesterday is taken and downloaded on it, the site
> will
> > > > change name and be called, as it is now,
> > > > http://evola_as_he_is.frih.net .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "darklittleflame"
> > > > <ads694@h...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Given discussion in past posts are we to assume that an
> English
> > > > > translation of Heathen Imperialism will be made available
at
> > > some
> > > > time?
> > > > > If so, will it be based on the original Italian or the
> German
> > > > version,
> > > > > which I understand had a number of changes made? And would
> such
> > > > > differences and their significance be identified via
> footnotes
> > > or
> > > > an
> > > > > introduction?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>









Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:50 pm

evola_as_he_is
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Given discussion in past posts are we to assume that an English translation of Heathen Imperialism will be made available at some time? If so, will it be based...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 6, 2006
9:08 am

Given the regrettable indiscretion which was committed three weeks ago on another e-list and of which we got to hear, it would be useless to keep it secret for...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 6, 2006
1:47 pm

"The power of a new Middle Ages is needed - a revolt, interior as well as exterior, of a barbaric purity." Is there any ambiguity regarding the word Evola...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 8, 2006
10:24 am

"We may call the Germanic peoples which invaded Rome 'barbarians', but not with respect to the degenerate Roman civilisation in which those peoples appeared,...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 8, 2006
6:18 pm

Thank you for the quote, most helpful. I am certainly aware of the timeless aspects of 'heathen imperialism,' which transcend any particular historical...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
9:25 am

It is safe to assume that Evola, in 'Heidnischer Imperialismus' as well as in his other works, appealed above all to the 'best ones'. As for those you call...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 10, 2006
12:55 pm

... I was just going by the following from an interview with Julien Hervier: HERVIER: What was your position on the Nazi movement during its early stages? ...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 11, 2006
9:07 am

If this statement also includes contemporary 'fascism' then I can supply a long list of 'uncouth' elements - skinheads, oi punks, NSDAP Satanists, National...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 9, 2006
9:25 am

It doesn't ; otherwise we would have spoken of 'neo-Fascists', but we are grateful to you for offering us the opportunity to correct a slip of the tongue we...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
8:46 pm

Inexplicable typing errors strike even the best of us from time to time... evola_as_he_is <evola_as_he_is@...> wrote: It doesn't ; otherwise we would...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 10, 2006
10:04 am

The Ms Lemon secretary type is long gone. ... to time... ... we ... slip ... of ... http://in.messenger.yahoo.com...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 10, 2006
1:17 pm

Bersekrs are a special incident of 'barbarism' due to the induction of an altered mind state. As has already been explained in the earlier quote from Dumezil,...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 9, 2006
9:25 am

It might be opportune at this point of the discussion to render here an article by comparitive religions scholar Mircea Eliade which has previously been...
zenon_noir Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
2:18 pm

It might be opportune at this point of the discussion to render here an article by comparitive religions scholar Mircea Eliade which has previously been...
zenon_noir Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
2:18 pm

"Given the above, I think your appellation of "shamanic warrior" is not completely out of place here". That is, if one agrees with and is willing to use...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
2:25 pm

Obviously I have been reading too much Eliade of late, if one can spot a reference to Eliade without me even citing his name. He does to tend to see shamanism...
Savitar Devi
savitar_devi Offline Send Email
Jan 10, 2006
10:02 am

"That is, if one agrees with and is willing to use Eliade's terminology. Basically, he sees Shamen everywhere, just like others see fertility cults...
zenon_noir Offline Send Email Jan 10, 2006
10:03 am

"A dominating race can grow up only out of terrible and violent beginnings. Problem: where are the barbarians of the twentieth century? Obviously, they will...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 9, 2006
8:32 pm

... Seems a fairly big leap to go from the individual acts Nietzsche refers to in this passage to mass murder on an industrial sized scale. You neglect to add...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 10, 2006
10:03 am

Of course it is up to debate whether ... I disagree. Its tiresome that N. is always taken out of context and his dislike of petty nationalism and his remarks...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 10, 2006
7:48 pm

... This is probably not the place to discuss Nietzsche's views on these matters in more depth given that it is a forum devoted to Evola. However, I never...
darklittleflame Offline Send Email Jan 11, 2006
9:07 am

... Semitism ... the ... 1. BGE, 251 - ""Let no more Jews come in! And shut the doors, especially towards the East (also towards Austria)!" - thus commands the...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 11, 2006
10:32 pm

Those who have read 'Three Aspects of the Jewish Problem' should see what Nietzsche's views on Jews and Evola's have in common and what distinguishes them. It...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 14, 2006
11:22 am

Thank you for your interest. I urge that N.'s BGE, 251 be read more carefully; quote - "That the Jews could, if they wanted - or if they were compelled, as the...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 15, 2006
8:26 pm

Evola studied three aspects of the Jewish problem, and, in fact, more than just three of them, besides being deeply interested in Nietzsche's work, in which...
evola_as_he_is Offline Send Email Jan 11, 2006
12:47 pm

Thank you very much for that reference! Regards. ... more ... therefore ... published...
kshonan88 Offline Send Email Jan 11, 2006
10:31 pm

In 'Revolt against the Modern World', chapter XI, Evola speaks of "prehistoric purity" about the Germans mentioned by Tacitus, stating: "What found expression...
vandermok
charltonroad36 Offline Send Email
Jan 9, 2006
4:21 pm

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