Joel,
Thanks for your rather misplaced confidence in me. I know nothing specific about any contemporary groups. In general, American attitudes toward Muslims are incoherent.
Traditional Europe [post Roman Empire, pre-Reformation and Reformation] protected itself from the influence of metics within and repelled invaders from without. This is true despite any positive attributes those alien groups may have possessed. For example, the Crusaders had great respect for Saladin; there was a book written by a knight imaginatively sharing with him the virtues of chivalry. Even Dante considered him a great hearted soul. Nevertheless, there was no doubt he was an enemy.
From: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com [mailto:evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joel Dietz
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 7:30 AM
To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [evola_as_he_is] De Giorgio (it was: Reghini and Pythagorism)
Tony,
Very good summary. Thank you. Could you also discuss the approach to Islam between the different groups? I am sometimes surprised by the continental right's positive appropriation of Muslims (generally what we in the anglosphere would consider terrorist groups) as possessing positive attributes.
Regards,
Joel
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Tony Ciapo <hyperborean@...> wrote:
I don’t necessarily mean they are incapable of discernment, rather there are historically-rooted differences in what constitutes the “right wing”.
In the 30s and 40s, Evola contributed 135 articles to the political journal La Vita Italiana, a period in which he was “politically engaged”. In many ways, they differ in tone and content from the post-war writings when he was content to rider the tiger. Since the Axis powers never created blockbuster movies, that point of view is generally lost. In Evola’s eyes, the battle was between the Nordic-Roman alliance on one side, whose goal was to preserve ancient, noble, pagan Europe. This was a perennial theme with him; he attributed the creation of Europe, or the Medieval civilization to that alliance. Opposed to that, was what he regarded as the American-British-Israeli alliance.
The Allies saw it a different way. They were the middle position between an atheist communism and a racist Europeanism. This was solidified post-WWII with the defeat of fascism. The Allied position then became the “right” in relation to the Soviets. The European right, as represented by Evola, inter alia, was completely out of consideration. The beginning of Revolution is usually accounted to the French, but the English revolution was actually the more radical one. It totally altered the spiritual life of the English. It replaced the common religion (whatever its demerits, it did contain traditional elements) with a protestantized Judaized heresy. It invited back elements that it had for centuries rejected and moved in the direction of a commercial rather than aristocratic nation.
That, then, is the identity of the anglosphere and what its “right wing” wants to preserve. The continental right looks to (or at least used to before GRECE) counter-revolutionary figures such as de Maistre, Donoso, Primo de Rivera, or Codreanu … all figures that Evola wrote about in a positive way. However, the anglosphere right never considers them seriously, and prefers the likes of Churchill and Abraham Lincoln. That is the “right” to them. “Free enterprise”, “individualism”, the self-made man … these are their ideals. Compare to what Evola writes in Sintesi:
“This is exactly the existing opposition between the traditional, especially Nordic-Aryan, ideal and the modern ideal of civilization. For the former, the essential task is to know and to be oneself; for the latter, the task is instead to “construct oneself”, to become what one is not, to shatter every limit in order to make everything possible to everyone: liberalism, democracy, individualism, ethical activist Protestantism, anti-racism, anti-traditionalism.”
What Evola opposes is precisely what the anglosphere right admires.
From: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com [mailto:evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Asdfasdsfdas Sfsdf
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 1:12 PM
To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [evola_as_he_is] De Giorgio (it was: Reghini and Pythagorism)
Hardly a response that considers Anglos capable of discernment. Considering the way Evola has been received in the US and Britain, you may be right - feed 'em to the dogs.
From: Tony Ciapo <hyperborean@...>
To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: [evola_as_he_is] De Giorgio (it was: Reghini and Pythagorism)
Reghini and De Giorgio have different visions of Romanity, which understood as the underlying Tradition of the West beyond its various guises. (A useful study is “Evola Guenon De Giorgio” by Piero di Vona.)
De Giorgio was undoubtedly the only man to have collaborated on a personal basis with both Guenon and Evola, with the former in Paris, and the latter in Rome when they worked on La Torre. Like Reghini and Guenon, de Giorgio regarded Dante’s Comedy as an initiatic text, relating antique Romanity to its medieval reconstruction. Translations of selected chapters from La Tradizione Romana are available on-line.
How can a “movement”, a term no Traditional author would have used, intended for an intellectual “elite” become “mainstream”? Good luck to you if you want to evangelize the “Anglosphere right wing”. Evola claimed a “law of elective affinity” whereby spirits would be attracted to certain material and historical conditions. Given current conditions, only average spirits will incarnate, or else those ready for a challenge. They will have to sort themselves out.
From: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com [mailto:evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of G. van der Heide
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 1:07 PM
To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [evola_as_he_is] De Giorgio (it was: Reghini and Pythagorism)
There's a text on Pythagorism by J.J. Bachofen to be found in 'Der Mythos von Orient und Okzident' (A. Baumler).
From the table of contents :
Rückkehr des Pythogrismus zum demetrischen Prinzipat in der Religion. Der gemeinsame priesterliche Weihecharakter Theanos, Sapphos, Diotimas, der pythagorischen, ailoischen, pelasgischen Frauen überhaupt Wiederbelebung der Kulturzüge des ältesten Mutterrechts und der pelasgischen Mysterienreligion in ihrer Verbindung mit dem Hervortreten der pythagorischen Frauen. Analoge Erscheinungen : der Einfluss des demetrischen und des christlichen Mariakultus auf die Erhaltung und neue Begründung der staatlichen Gynaikokratie.
2012/2/25 Asdfasdsfdas Sfsdf <andreforcordelia@...>
If anyone is listening with the ability, Reghini and De Giorgio would both make excellent reading material for the intellect-starved desert of the Anglosphere "right wing."
Having met several "traditionalists" in the US, followers of Guenon and Cutsinger, I am discovering that if there will ever be a mainstream recognition of this movement it will be quickly be absorbed into zionist 'conservatism' and new age unitarianism, another reason I stick with Schopenhauer as an inspiration for reaction. Schopenhauer was at least, "numinous," and even "dharmic" compared to the esoteric worshippers of Allah/YWHA, the danger of which, I credit Evola_as_he_is for deeper comprehension on the issue.
Another work I have looked for in translation: http://books.google.pl/books?id=_ItttHcYKsgC&printsec=frontcover&hl=pl&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
From: vandermok <vandermok@...>
To: evola as he is <evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [evola_as_he_is] De Giorgio (it was: Reghini and Pythagorism)
It's a very interesting book of 323 pages, a bit visionary and probably more close to Guénon than to Evola. Anyway my English has rusted by now for translating (apart from the laziness). Fortunately we have a polyglot owner...
An example:
"Mentre nei Sacerdoti domina la conoscenza, nei Guerrieri domina l'amore, perché tutta la loro forza è una specie di offerta in un inappagamento continuo che si placa solo con la morte... (...)
Chi non sa uccidere se stesso, non saprà mai uccidere o, per meglio dire, uccidendo egli profanerà la vita e la morte perché la sua causa non è sacra..."
-----------
----- Original Message -----
From: Asdfasdsfdas Sfsdf
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [evola_as_he_is] Re: Reghini and Pythagorism
I am someone jealous of those with fluency in Italian at this moment, did anyone get a chance to read Guido de Giorgio's La Tradizione Romana?
From: Evola <evola_as_he_is@...>
To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:17 PM
Subject: [evola_as_he_is] Re: Reghini and Pythagorism
"In Greece Pythagoreanism represented in many ways a return of the Pelasgic spirit. Despite its astral and solar symbols (including a Hyperborean trace), the Pythagorean doctrine was essentially characterized by the Demetrian and pantheistic theme. After all, the lunar spirit of the Chaldean or Mayan priestly science was reflected in its view of the world in terms of numbers and of harmony ; the dark, pessimistic, and fatalistic motif of tellurism was retained in the Pythagorean notion of birth on this earth as a punishment and as a sentence, and also in the teaching concerning reincarnation, which I have previously described as a symptom of spiritual disease. The soull that repeatedly reincarnates is the sould subjected to the chthonic law. The doctrine of reincarnation exemplifies the emphasis Pythagoreanism and Orphism gave to the principle that is tellurically subjected to rebirth, as well as the truth proper to the civilization of the Mother. Pythagoras's nostalgia for ideas of a Demetrian type (after his death his home became a sanctuary for the goddess Demeter)
including the dignity that women enjoyed in Pythagorean sects where they presided over initiations and where the ritual cremation of the dead was forbidden, as well as the sect's horror of blood - are features that can easily be explained on this basis. In this kind of context even the escape from the "cycle of rebirths" has a dubious character (it is significant that in Orphism the dwelling of the blessed is not above, as in the Achaean symbol of the Elysian Fields, but rather under the earth, in the company of infernal gods), in comparison to the ideal of immortality that was proper of "Zeus's path" ; at the end of this path there was a heavenly region or a Uranian world dominated by the "spiritual virility of the light" and inhabited by "those who are," namely, beings who are detached and inacessible in their perfection and purity."
--- In evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com, "vandermok" <vandermok@...> wrote:
>
> The reference is to this rather difficult sect. in Revolt:
>
> Il pitagorismo in Grecia significò, sotto vari aspetti, un ritorno dello spirito pelasgico. Malgrado i suoi simboli astrali e solari (e perfino una traccia iperborea) la dottrina pitagorica è essenzialemnte improntata dal tema demetrico e pantetistico. In fondo, lo spirito lunaare della scienza sacerdotale caldea o maya si riflette nella sua visione del mondo come numero e armonia; l'oscuro motivo pessimistico e fatalistico del tellurismo si conserva nel concetto pitagorico della rinascita in terra come punizione e persino nello stesso insegnamento relativo alla reincarnazione. Circa quest'ultimo, si sa già di cosa esso sia sintomo. L'anima che ricorrentemente si incarna, non è che l'anima soggiacente alla legge ctonia. Il pitagorismo, e lo stesso orfismo, insegnando la reincarnazione, mostrano il risalto che la loro concezione dà al principio telluricamenbte soggetto alla rinascita, epperò alla verità propia della civiltà della Madre. La nostalgia di Pitagora è per le dee del tipo demetrico (dopo la sua morte l'abitazione di Pitagora divenne un santuario di Demetra), la dignità che le donne avevano nelle sette pitagoriche ove esse figuravano perfino come iniziatrici e dove sisgnificativamente l'arsione rituale funeraria era proibita e si aveva un orrore pel sangue, sono, su tale base, aspetti assai comprensibili. In un quadro di tal genere la stessa uscita dal ciclo delle rinascite non può rivestire un carattre sospetto (nell'orfismo è significativo che il soggiorno dei beati non sia sopra la terra, come nel simbolo acheo dei Campi Elisi, ma sotto terra, in compagnia con gli altri dei inferi) in opposto all'ideale di immortalità proprio alla via di Zeus e riferito alla regione di 'coloro che sono', staccati, inaccessibili nella loro perfezione e purità come le nature fisse del mondo uranio, della regione celeste dove domina la virilità incorporea della luce in essenze stellari plurime, prive di promiscuità, distinte a sé stesse."
>
> Moreover, there is to consider the difference between the Pythagorean reincarnation and the transmigration in Buddhism and Vedanta.
> ------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Asdfasdsfdas Sfsdf
> To: evola_as_he_is@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:04 AM
> Subject: [evola_as_he_is] Reghini and Pythagorism
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any insight into Evola's rejection of Pythagorism?
>
>
> He aludes in Rivolta and Camino that there are southern, telluric ways in this path and that Reghini was trying to revive a type of Pythagorism.
>
>
> Be that as it may, I do not understand the outright dismissal of this tradition. Just a few tidbits:
>
>
> 1. Geometrically and conceptually the foundation of all Hermeticism and alchemical symbolism (at least as far back as can be traced, with perhaps the exception of Egypt).
>
>
> 2. Esoteric, initiatory and aristocratic. The burning of its libraries came about from plebs who were rejected by the group. Many ascetic practices similar to early Buddhism.
>
>
>
> 3. Utterly entwined with tripartite doctrines which led to much Platonic doctrine such as tripartite caste system, tripartite metaphysiology, etc., etc. Metempsychosis, wheel of life, etc., etc.
>